Record Live Podcast

Why the youth are leaving and what to do about it
[00:00:00] Hi there everyone. I'm Jared. And I'm Sunita. We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church faith and living well. We believe as followers of Jesus faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we'd put into practice. Let's go live.
Jarrod: And we are back record live family. We have a special guest on today, Dr. Jeff Parker.
Jeff Parker: It's
Jarrod: scary who I know who now, Jeff, you've recently been called back to ministry in Tasmania. You're working with the Seventh Day Adventist Church in Tasmania, but for a large chunk of time, probably, , a decade or more, at least at the Australian.
Level, you were at the [00:01:00] youth ministry space, you were, , our youth ministry director for all of Australia. Mm-hmm. And you were just telling us a little bit about your studies in this space. So today we're gonna have a really important conversation and that is about how we can engage our youth in church.
Why they're leaving, perhaps, , are they leaving, , and what can we, the church do about it , to do. To do better in this space to really keep our young people connected. Because what we wanna see is our faith passed on to the next generation, but potentially, I don't know, we're gonna find out today, , how good a job we're doing of that and whether there's some areas, some easy low hanging fruit that we can improve on.
, So just tell us a little bit about your background, , Jeff, and, and where you've come from and some of the expertise and the interest you have in this area.
Jeff Parker: Mm-hmm. Yeah, been involved in, , youth ministry, , up till the end of last year for 27 years. Wow. So was youth director in Tasmania for six and then North New South Wales for [00:02:00] nine, and then did a 12 year stint at the union, , in youth ministry.
So quarter of a century means I'm old. But anyway, we, focused on youth ministry and it, it's really exciting to actually work with young generations, I have to say. And, , truly loved that, that 27 years, the best 27 years of my life. So yeah, it's been a, it's been a really good experience.
Zanita: Hmm, we young adults.
Uh, I'm still gonna call myself that 'cause Jeff said I could before we started that conversation might be , on the edge there. But, , I feel like be clued on in the sense that we can tell when someone's doing something 'cause they're getting paid as a job or when they're doing it because they have a real heart for it.
And I don't actually remember when I first met you, but I feel like I have a memory of you. From when I was young, whether at Pathfinders or at Converge or summer camps or whatever. And I've come to know you as someone who has a real passion for young people. And so I'd love to know a little bit about why, like you could have chosen any career or you could have chosen any direction with like theology or pastorship.
[00:03:00] Why is it that you are so passionate about young people specifically? Was it that you had someone mentor you in your own life? Is it because you know the stats? Like where does that
Jeff Parker: come
Zanita: from?
Jeff Parker: Well, a few things. I didn't ever wanna be a pastor to start with, so, and that end, that ended up changing. And then I was a pastor for three years and then they asked me to do youth ministry and I laughed at them.
You know, kind of like, so I, I think it's really a god thing. It because I was trying to run the other way And, and God has just pushed me in that direction and, and I've been there for a long time. And when I look back, I think, yeah, amazing journey and thanks God for pushing me in that direction.
always been a big kid really. So, I never really grew up, so that's the problem. So a big kid, just very, you know, loved to. I mean, my body doesn't keep up with what my head says, you know, like, 'cause I've sort of, uh, that's how it is now. But, yeah, loved youth ministry, loved pathfinders, um, involved in campes, um, set up converge, you know, dozen years ago.
And that's just been an absolute, success, you know, with young adults up to 800 young adults coming every [00:04:00] year. just to have a real passion to see. Young people step up and define their place in God's service. You know, first of all, to meet Jesus if they haven't, and then to just find, Hey, how do I fit into this and what can I do?
but you know, as you said before, Jared, you know, we, we, maybe we are losing too many. Well, yes, the answer is actually yes, we are, we are losing too many. We, we dunno an actual number in the Adventist church, but we do know that the Christian Church in Australia is losing more than 70%. In their twenties to 30, between 20 and 30, it's around 72 to 76.
Depends what you read. Percent of, uh, of the young adults are leaving faith Now, in the Adventist Church, it's not that high, but. It's still too high, whatever it is. And it could be somewhere between one third to half. we don't actually know the real facts. It's really hard to check on that. But we do know that way too many leave the church and leave, leave faith.
and that's a real concern. That's a real, been a concern to us in youth ministry for a long time being a concern to the church. and I guess ultimately like a real concern [00:05:00] to parents. as parents actually, are bringing up the kids and they, they hear some of those statistics. They think, oh, hang on, uh, what's happening?
You know, um, am I, am my kids gonna fall into the, into that category? Or are they gonna be into this one? You know?
Zanita: Can I, can I ask a question on that? 70% statistic, because I've heard that as well and I was one of those people who left in that age gap, but I've kind of seen as I've come into my thirties.
A lot of, well, not a lot, but a number of people come back and I don't know if it's like, are we doing something wrong as a church or is that just part of like the growing up process where people have to kind of like make faith their own and question things? Like, I don't know. Do you have statistics of like how many people come back.
Later on.
Jeff Parker: No, we don't. But, but, when Barna has done research on that, particularly in the us, it's actually showing that they're not coming back like they used to. Interesting. a lot less are coming back. and that's also a problem because, we think, oh yeah, they'll go out for a few years and then they'll come back.
I mean, I did that myself. in my late teen years and then came back, fired up. but you know, a lot of people are not doing that as well. Uh, we dunno the [00:06:00] numbers, a again, some of that would cost a lot of money to find out and uh, the church hasn't invested that. but yeah, we, we probably could find out more about it, but we.
Jarrod: I guess part of the issue, Jeff, is that often we don't have membership statistics for the very young because they're not baptized yet. In our faith tradition, we do sort of adult baptism or, or, or, or young, young people, but they have to make that decision. And so I guess there's kids growing up in our communities as well that is leaving and we know for the Adventist Church, I think it's four in 10, almost half are leaving.
Just the whole church. And I imagine that a lot of the young people that are leaving are not factored into those numbers as well. Because I know a lot of kids I grew up in Sabbath school with or, or in church with. They're not there. Yeah, they're not there. There, there are some. And then there are those at least half who aren't.
And so it is concerning. Now you've wrote for Adventist record, you've written two pieces now on this. Yes. And I'll [00:07:00] share the links in the comments. for those that are watching on, they can see those links there and they can go read the articles for themselves. But, let's get into this. What is the big thing, do you think?
Or is there a Big ticket item we can look at and go, Hey, we really need to start. Here if we're gonna address this whole youth retention issue?
Jeff Parker: Sure. I would actually say three things. and in that first article that was in July last year, that you'll put up in the link a bit later, talked about three big things.
And those three big things are simply this, and I'll just explain a little bit. First one is parenting. And you think, oh, how, how's that youth ministry? Well, it actually is. It's part of what we do in the church. The second thing is intergenerational connections. And the third thing is mentoring. And I'm not talking about formal mentoring here.
I'm talking about informal mentoring. And if we as a church can get those things, three things right, we will see a massive change. Now they're not, none of them are rocket science. They're all pretty basic and pretty simple, but we don't generally do them very well. [00:08:00] Just an example. and, I'll just read a little bit here.
It just, this is from the National Study of Youth and Religion, Christian Smith, over in us. So it's a US study, not Australian study, but they did a longitudinal study on, How parents interact with their kids and their longevity in, in faith. And the interesting thing was that if parents didn't really spend any time or much time at all connecting, talking about spiritual things, even if they were, you know, Christians involved in church, the survey only found 1%, stayed in their twenties, 1%.
Jarrod: Wow.
Jeff Parker: 1%. And, and that blew me away. I thought that that has to be a typo, but it actually isn't. and then it said if you speaking with your children three to four times a week about spiritual things, 85% of them stay. Hmm.
Zanita: Wow.
Jeff Parker: So there is a massive difference between what we do as parents, and that's kind of scary because, you know, what, what am I doing as a, as a dad?
You know, am I actually making sure that I'm having those regular faith conversations? And it's [00:09:00] not deep, necessarily deep theological stuff we're talking about. It's actually. Questioning. It's like, you know, discussing things about Jesus or God or faith, you know, those are the things that make the big difference.
And so 1% to 85%, I dunno how that fits in Australia, but I'd say that we parallel, you know, pretty closely.
Jarrod: I, I just wanna reflect on that just before you go on, Jeff. That's so interesting because so often we think of youth. Ministry as we partition off the youth, we send them out to their own program. We have the whistles and the, the lights and, and we do mm-hmm.
You know, whizzbang youth ministry. Yeah. But all three of those things. Mentoring, intergenerational stuff and parenting the family unit, all three of those things include and involve people outside of youth. Right.
Jeff Parker: Sure.
Jarrod: Am. Am I. Misunderstanding that.
Jeff Parker: No, no.
Jarrod: It's about, absolutely, it's about engaging and involving people outside of the youth demographic to help keep those young people.
Jeff Parker: You know, probably 20 years ago we were quite, [00:10:00] um, you know, youth ministry happened over there and the church ministry happened over there. We've realized in those 20 years or so, that that isn't gonna actually work and it doesn't work and it, but that doesn't mean we can't do youth ministry. Mm-hmm. Um, when we go to big cab, we have the youth tent, we have the high school tent.
Absolutely vital, it must be there. But when we come back to the local church, local church has to actually have a link with all of those things. It doesn't mean they can't have their youth room and all those things, but we still, as a church, we have to actually do church as a big group. And if we try to say, that's your patch over there, young people, and that's our patch over here.
Then when we get to the 17, 18-year-old and we get to the freedom years, will we say right. If we're done, our patch, we're out and we're gone. And, and that's what happened. statistics show that when they graduate from school, they often graduate from church and you actually, we go to university now.
It's a new stage of life. University's often very secular. If you go to AU University, very different. But if you go to a, you know, a public university, very secular, and you're really challenged in your faith, and [00:11:00] usually if you don't have that strength and stability, you're gone. and really it's within three to six months, it's like we are talking little bits, we're not talking massive here, three to six months.
And they're, they're actually. Gone. Probably not coming back in the, in the short term at least. Mm-hmm. So, parenting's so important, but the second one was intergenerational connections. And I'm not necessarily talking about a 65-year-old hanging out with 13 year olds, although that's really important too.
But I'm actually talking about your age, Anita. Hanging out with the younger generation, you're gonna have way more impact on that generation that I am gonna have because of my age difference automatically. It's more of a challenge for me if you're only one or two generations removed from the, from the generation you're dealing with, that spiritual impact you can have is massive.
And that's what we are asking our church people to do, is to make sure that we're having those strong connections. Because if we're not connecting. As a bunch of generations, we are not taking them on a journey. And it's kind of like you do your ministry over there and, they graduate, they will walk away.
And um, we found that a lot of [00:12:00] people are graduating in their heads when they're around 13 or 14. But they are still needing to go to church. 'cause mom and dad says they need to go. So they still go. But as soon as they get to the freedom years, I've got my license, I'm now going to university. Well, hey, I'm not going there anymore.
so the link has to be really sort of embedded into, into our younger, younger generation. Mm. And that brings to the third thing, uh, mentoring. And I'm not talking about this, the formal, you know, uh, Jared, I'm gonna be do a mentor thing. We we're gonna have this weekly connection.
We're gonna sign a agreement. And I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about informal, where I'm looking out for four or five young. Kids in my church. and this needs to start with the adventure rage. You know, we are talking the kids is where this starts. This is before even Pathfinders and with Pathfinders.
And, um, we need to, as a church board and a church business meeting, we need to be making sure that we are actually looking out for our kids. Are we connecting? Do we even know their names? Do we even know who they are? Are they playing sport and having a real success? Are they struggling at school? You know, do we even know any of that?
We probably don't. We probably have [00:13:00] no idea what's going on in the kid's life, but if we are having an informal mentoring relationship, you know, we can, we can actually start to connect and build that and it, and we're not talking weird stuff. We're talking safe, you know, gotta be in with ad, ad safe and all that.
You know, we've gotta, we've gotta be safe, but you still gotta have connection. And so if that connection's built up, what we, what we are hoping to see is that a church over time. Is able to have those intergenerational connections, really good parenting, informal mentoring between the people of the church and the kids.
And when they get to those freedom years, they won't even want to run away because they've got strong connections and hopefully in that whole process, they're building faith as well. And so they can stand on their own two feet, feet in regards to faith. So they're the big three. they're not complicated by any means or guess they are because they're hard to do.
Zanita: Mm-hmm. I, I was thinking about this recently because I think sometimes when we look at people who are younger. Younger than us that are coming to church, maybe We kind of think, oh, they, I think especially if they're with their [00:14:00] families, we think, oh, they're good. They're being looked after. They've got a good family.
and so we kind of like sit back and relax a little bit on those people. Mm-hmm. It's the people who I think are, who obviously are alone, who we probably put more energy into, but what are the actual benefits, I suppose, of investing in people, even though they have. A good family.
Jeff Parker: Yeah. Well, I I don't think anyone has the perfect family.
Straight up. Uh, I haven't seen too many, but there are, I guess there's, you know, you could rate families, but how do you do that? I, I think every family needs support. Whether they're going well or not, I think we need to make sure that we've got that connection built in because sometimes, when, particularly in the teenage years, kids can rebel a little bit with their family and, and to have that intergenerational support there to bring 'em back on track is, is really helpful for the parent as well.
You know, and part of that parenting process. So, um, I think that we need, you know, even if parents are doing really well, I still think they need help. you know, I need help as a parent, from outside and I, and I've, because I know about this stuff [00:15:00] sometimes I've actually, I. Made a phone call and said, Hey, I need you to do a bit of informal mentoring for me.
You know, like, you, you need to get onto this because I, I'm struggling here and I need the help. so those kinds of things I think are important as well. Yeah. Hmm.
Zanita: I guess is that it? Hope takes a village, kind of kind of motto.
Jeff Parker: Yeah, yeah. Sticky faith that we talked about probably a decade or so ago, you know, full of theological seminary, talked about, you know, that each kid to survive has to have five mentors in their life,
Zanita: huh?
Jeff Parker: To survive through church. You know, you, you just, if you don't have the five, you usually don't survive and, just looks the light.
Zanita: Interesting.
Jarrod: Jeff, I've seen some commentary lately, at least online, about how our kids aren't necessarily equipped with the answers. Do you think there's a role for.
I guess passing on faith, not just, here's the Bible story and here's the moralizing. Mm-hmm. Here's the, here's the good lesson. But things like the evidence for the Bible, Mm-hmm. And for the resurrection, you know, things like the creation, evolution, debates. 'cause at that age you're saying they get their [00:16:00] freedom, they go to uni often, that's when the world can also challenge some of their beliefs.
Yeah. And if they don't have nuanced or, or. Well supported defenses for some of their faith. They can feel, I don't know, disconnected. They can feel stupid, like, why didn't I ask these questions before this time? Um, and that can really, um, shake their confidence. The whole foundation of faith. Yeah. How do we instill some of those apologetics things in younger kids?
Mm. Because you're saying it's sort of key very early, even in children. How do we start that journey so that when they hit those mm-hmm. Time periods, they're better equipped to answer some of those questions. Absolutely. Do you think that's an important thing to do?
Jeff Parker: Oh yeah. Yeah. It has to be done and, and if we don't allow, uh, our kids to ask questions and get answers, as soon as they get those freedom years, they're gonna get smashed.
Like, that's the word smashed. You go to university and it's like, whoa. All that stuff that I was taught is just getting totally like. You know, creation [00:17:00] and, you know, Sabbath and all that stuff is just gonna get thrown at you, you know, and, um, and it's sometimes really tough to survive. And if you don't have some real solid roots, you're, you're probably not going to.
And that's why I believe things like, Pathfinders and being a youth director, Pathfinders is our church's best mentoring program that we have so far. we could probably even do better than that, but Pathfinders, um, you find kids that go through the whole pathfinder experience of five to six years and then maybe go into leadership afterwards.
Those kids come out, those youth, those teens, they come out pretty good, pretty solid, you know. and I think also kids that don't go and do service, I think it's the ability to, uh, to be able to ask hard questions and not be fobbed off. Mm. You know, like, um, I, I got some really hard questions, but no one's gonna answer them.
You know, that doesn't help. you know, sometimes we get asked a hard question and, and we think, oh, do I, I don't wanna deal with that. Can, can you do all that? You know? And then I don't wanna deal with it. It's just too hard. and you know, I've been guilty of that myself and thinking, [00:18:00] oh, you know, we're gonna do a youth rally.
We should do, no, it's too hard. No, it's too hard. We'll do something that we'll set something a bit easier, you know? but. I think sometimes we have to ask the hard questions and, and Barna with his, um, his book, you Lost Me. He talks about that same thing. We haven't actually given the ability for our young people to ask the hard questions, even if we don't have the complete answers, they've gotta be able to ask the hard questions and, and got a forum to discuss it.
Hmm.
Zanita: Yeah, I think that's key is just somewhere to discuss it and ask the questions. Um, even if you don't have the answers. But, uh, you raised something in your article, you said, Christian goodness, Christian kindness and a deep sense of genuine care are foundational to keeping young people in the church.
And I'm sure many young people in the church can testify that Christian kindness is present. Like I feel like it's pretty normal that when. You go to church, you know, you have people say, hi, how are you? Nice to see you. How was your week? That kind of thing. Mm-hmm. But I feel like 95% of the time probably, that's where it kind of stops and
Jeff Parker: Yeah.
Zanita: And you kind of miss that next step of the relationship. Mm-hmm. So how can people start going deeper with younger people? Like how can [00:19:00] they cross those bridges and start to really show that genuine care for them?
Jeff Parker: Well, well, what if we started to learn their names? That'd probably be a good starting point, you know, and, and I'm not, I'm not trying to be, crazy stupid here, but often we have no idea who our kids are in our church.
You know, they're there, they're out there doing something, but who are they? And, uh, just by finding out the names and actually learning the names and, and having conversation with them is a really good starting point. I think that that's, that's really key. Um. Being able to listen to what they're actually, 'cause often they've, their body language is saying things that, you know, they're struggling with and, or they're asking the real questions and we are not letting them, We're not, we're not answering them. it, it is a, it is a tough one. I, I can just, I, I guess I'll speak for the church that I have been going to for the last. Few years in Victoria. and that's Dale Church. And I, and I can boast about it because I don't lead it, right? So it's got nothing to do with me, but I, but I'm really impressed with what they are doing as a church.
they have, a service first for more, more traditional, and they have Sabbath school and then they have a service [00:20:00] afterwards that's a little bit more contemporary. Not radically different, but they're just a bit different and they really focus on that intergenerational connection and, and I know when we did the whole growing together.
a few years ago with the six essential strategies from the book, growing Young, they were very much involved in that. I think they knew some of that before they even went, but they even, they amplified it even more. And I just see that that church, that's one example of a church that's actually doing very well in this space.
Now, that doesn't mean they're perfect. They're not, but they're doing really well. And I believe that, you know, you see those kids are really. Kids and teens and youth in the church, it seemed to me to be really switched on. Mm. They're asking the hard questions. They got ability to have good discussions.
their Sabbath school time is really, um, positive. The church is involving them in every aspect of church. Like every week they're up the front and I think, wow, this is good. And that's the kind of thing. And if, and if every church could just. It can't be a Lilydale church, [00:21:00] but if every church just, I guess broadened their ability to, interact with their younger generations better and involve them, I think we would see some massive changes.
Jarrod: Something our young people often, uh, brush up against is this sort of, issue in the church where it's like. We don't trust them enough, like to get involved. We want church the way we want it, and they might do something a bit risque or they might say something up the front that's not appropriate.
how do we as a church get better at doing some of that? Because I, I, I feel like involvement, at least for my journey. Being involved in a church was very different to just attending and bumping in and out just for sermon, just for the service. Mm. Mm-hmm. Um, when I was being discipled, when I was involved, that's when I had the most, I guess the deepest level and, and the best connection with church.
Mm-hmm. When I felt a sense of ownership. How do we give our young people ownership when. They might make mistakes, you know, how do we do
Jeff Parker: that?
Jarrod: How do we get better at doing that as the church?
Jeff Parker: [00:22:00] Yeah. Well, we, we struggle with it as a church. and one of those six strategies we talked about from the growing together was key chain leadership.
You know, being able to hand the keys over to the younger generation. and like we're scared of them, I think, they, they're gonna do something that's going to be, um, a little bit radical. They'll damage us. So we, well, I dunno if we want to trust them. You know, there are churches that are trusting them well though.
And the example I spoke about before, and there are mistakes. You see it and, and you know, well, hey, I reckon there's one of the younger individuals doing that. You know, like, but that doesn't matter. Let's get 'em, get behind them and say, Hey, pick up the good things they did and run with it. And, and the informal mentoring I was talking about.
That's the key. That's where that comes in. The intergenerational connections is working right there too, because the generations are working across each other and you've got this person, Nita, working with, for an example, sorry, uh, working with a 14-year-old in, in your church and you are guiding that girl or that whoever on a journey.
You are teaching and training and, [00:23:00] the church board is probably gonna trust that person a whole lot more if they know they've got you as the mentor that's guiding that person. So, so I think that intergenerational connection that in, that mentoring that's, happening behind the scenes is really important and, and probably the only way forward really.
Zanita: Hmm. I guess on this, um, mentoring thing, like as a young adult. Myself, I'm quite aware that I'm not really a priority in other younger, well, other adults lives because you know, they typically have their own family. They typically have a job. They've typically got responsibilities in the church. They've typically got like their own friends that they're trying to, I guess.
Make time for.
Jarrod: Mm-hmm.
Zanita: Um, so my expectations of other adults are quite small. And I think, um, I think when I have seen people just make small efforts, I'm really thankful and I've been really grateful because I'm like, yeah, I have, there you
Jarrod: go.
Zanita: I have this understanding that. They have other priorities and they have other things in their life.
and I think some people, they kind of hear the word mentor and they kind of intimidated 'cause they think of this like karate kid one-on-one kind of relationship where [00:24:00] they're, you know, giving someone lessons and they're pouring all this time into people. when really done in such smaller kind of moments.
But I don't know if you have any stories or examples or any ways that you've kind of seen this mentorship lived out Maybe in like ways that we are not thinking of ourselves.
Jeff Parker: Mm. Look, probably just, I might read this. this, this was when we did the survey, we surveyed over 600 young adults to ask them all sorts of things.
This is Adventist, young adults about church, church life about. Challenges and all sorts of things. Never talked about mental mentoring directly. Uh, interesting. But it came up often over and over again, and this is just one. Um, since becoming, becoming a single mother outta wedlock, the church has been more supportive than I could have ever imagined.
It came as a real surprise to me, as I know I did the wrong thing, so I assumed there would be tension within the church. As far as I can see and tell everyone at my home church has embraced me further into the church family and have done all they can to support me. People who never spoke to me before, [00:25:00] now take the time to check in on me.
And this has really showed me the value of the solid church family. and this was, um, survey number 277 'cause it's anonymous, so we've just got a number beside it. But this is a young woman who is part of one of our churches in Australia. That actually this is a real snippet, you know? Um, and to me that's amazing.
But here's another one. I grew up in a single parent family. I think my mom saw my older brothers leave the church because they had no strong mentor despite her best efforts. So she made sure I was plugged in with the supportive mentors from the youth group. I attended to pastors and other leaders. I'm so grateful I had these people, but I also wonder where these people were for my brothers.
I don't understand why the church didn't reach out for them. Mm. Wow. You know, that's just two little snippets of, a negative and I guess a positive. Mm. Um, you know, like, well, there's few negatives and some positives all mixed in together there, but we just gotta, we just gotta, I guess, change our mindset and, and look out for those around us, whether we are young [00:26:00] or old or whatever.
It doesn't really matter.
Jarrod: You've framed it as informal mentoring, and I guess that's not like filling out paperwork and, and meeting regularly necessarily. But I guess, the way I'm thinking of it, from what you are describing it and what you've been saying is maybe the word intentional would work well there.
It's not. Mm-hmm. It's not haphazard. It's not just sort of informal in that sense, but it's intentionally. Identifying people that might need, you know, a an arm around their shoulder or a tap on the back and just, just an encouragement and, and that sort of thing. So, I think if we think about it, um, who can we be intentional with and, and that, you know, we are fast running outta time.
But that leads us to our sort of final thing we like to do on, on record live here is to, to get a bit. And so this week, Jeff, for anyone watching this now or in the future, they've found on YouTube, they're listening to the podcast, what can they do in their own life, in their own church? Yeah. To start this journey to help the young people to be retained, to be, [00:27:00] an important, to feel like an important part of the church community.
What, give us something practical that we can just start doing this week.
Jeff Parker: Well, I would say, um, have a think about. Where you worship, where you are involved. And, and think of three people, three of the younger generation that you can intentionally look out for and start to have a connection with. Find out their names.
You don't have to be. you know, over the top, in fact, an informal, how I call it informal. You had said intentional mental mentorship, they don't even know, right? So, so the mentee has no idea that this is, this is what's taking place. So that's why I call it informal. The only person who knows is me, who's now looking out for those three individuals in my church.
that I can try to build a long-term connection with, you know, a safe, long-term connection, obviously, but a long-term where I'm checking on them, I'm, I'm finding out when they come to church, what they've been up to. if they're, you know, involved in school play, I'll probably go and watch it and give them some feedback.
You know, all that sort of thing. Three people in my church this week or this weekend [00:28:00] that I can look at and say, I'm gonna make an effort to, really get involved in their life.
Zanita: Hmm.
Jeff Parker: That's my takeaway for today.
Zanita: Love it. Good stuff. Attainable. I think that's something we can all go and do. Thank you so much Jeff for coming on a record live and talking to us today.
It's been great to, just learn from you and learn your wisdom. thank you for everything you do in the adult space and everything you've done over the many years. And thank
Jeff Parker: you.
Zanita: Hopefully we'll have you on for another episode in the future.
Jeff Parker: Had a ball. See ya.
Jarrod: Thanks everyone. God bless.