Record Live Podcast

  Hi there, everyone. I'm Jared. And I'm Zenita. We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church, faith, and living well. We believe as followers of Jesus, faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we put into practice. Let's go live.

 And we are back again with another week of Record Live and it is wonderful to have Zenita as always joining us and also Olivia. Welcome, Olivia. Hi, thanks for having me. Now, Olivia, , if you haven't met Olivia, she is helping us out with , lots of writing for record and a few things.

other things in Adventist media in the production department and she has varied interests and many talents. And today we're going to be reflecting on an article that she wrote in the Adventist Record recently, but I want to give some background before we start. This week in the week we're recording this has a mental health emphasis.

, the 12th of September is always are you okay day, which encourages people to reach out and make sure that people are doing okay around them, , brings awareness to some of the mental health challenges that people are experiencing. And I believe the 10th of September is also World Suicide Prevention Day, , which comes also in that same week.

So,, September is a time where Maybe we should all year round, but September is definitely a time where awareness is raised and attention is driven to mental health. And it does relate to the conversation we're going to have , , this week, , because Olivia wrote about mental health, but in a different sort of context than I'd seen it done before.

, and we're going to explore today some of the links between the Adventist health message. and our mental health. So that's where we're starting this conversation. And we'll see where it leads us in the next half hour or so. It's very good to have this conversation. , but None of us are qualified mental health professionals.

So this is to give some broad background information to just generally help us feel well. , but at the same time, we would encourage anyone who's listening, that wants to go deeper, go further, , definitely consult with professionals. , that's important to, to do. , this is just meant to be broad, , and generic information.

So without further ado, let's get into it. , Olivia, first question, , should be a fairly straightforward one. Where'd your interest in mental health and, , the health message, what led you to writing this article? Where'd that interest come from?

Well, I've always been quite interested in mental health.

, ever since a young age, I remember back in primary school going through some experiences which at the time I didn't know were related to depression and anxiety and my teacher, she noticed the symptoms and pointed it out to me and helped me through it. And so just becoming aware. Of mental health at a young age really set me on a trajectory of wanting to find out more about it.

But the inspiration for this article in particular actually came from an airplane ride. , it was a 20, 20 something long hour journey. And I was sick of watching movies. I was sick of reading. I was sick of talking to people. I just wanted something where I could put my headphones on and switch off. And so I was scrolling through the podcasts that the plane had available.

And one of them was. on this idea of the metabolic theory of mental health. And it just caught my attention and I thought, oh, that's a bit odd. I haven't heard of this before. So I had a listen and it was Dr. Chris Palmer, who's a medical doctor, , talking about this new theory that's come out in recent months and years that, I decided to write the article on.

Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit more about this? I know this is what you wrote the article on the metabolic, what is it? The metabolic what? The metabolic theory of mental health. Yeah. It's a long name. Can you unpack a little bit more? Like what does that, what does that mean? Or what about that interested you?

What is the gist of the podcast saying, or what did you actually write the article about yeah, sure. , well, the theory itself talks about how,, any kind of mental health disorder or illness. That kind of waxes and wanes or like fluctuates over time can be attributed to our diet in terms of the things that we eat or the nutrients that we intake or lack thereof can then affect the development and the processes involved in our neurology.

And the way that this, , theory has been explained is that In our cells, we have what we call mitochondria. You might remember it from high school, it's the powerhouse of the cell. Yes, you're nodding. And these mitochondria, they're responsible for a lot of different processes, primarily the production of energy.

But in your neurons in your brain, the mitochondria are responsible, especially for the neurogeneration or the creation of new neurons, as well as the, , removal of unhealthy neurons. And so it's very heavily involved in these processes of creation and destruction, as well as proper functioning. by creating, , the energy and the proteins and chemicals required for these processes.

And so when we don't have the nutrients from our diet to have these processes working properly, then our neurons will suffer. And so a lot of the different discussions which I brought up in my article and which the podcast I listened to discussed was looking at the different ways our neurons and the damage done to our neurons through poor diet have actually been expressed in terms of depression or anxiety or ADHD and other different mental health conditions.

So that's a brief summary. Is that the same? Cause I have heard of this concept probably in recent years of the idea of the microbiome, is it called? In the gut. So , your stomach and how that's actually much more connected to brain function and emotion and mood and things like that, as we wouldn't expect, that your stomach is so linked to your brain.

Is this, is this the same concept, but unpacked a little more scientifically? Or is this, , building on that knowledge that we already had? I'd say it's probably building on that knowledge. It's kind of like a sister, theory alongside it, because we do know that our gut is our second brain, they call it, because it has the second most number of neurons in our body.

And so, the bacteria and everything that's in our gut really does affect the hormones that go into our brain and everything like that. But, it's kind of a separate and tangential theory in that our microbiome does definitely impact. The expression of hormones and regulation, but this theory is in particular looking more at the nutrients that we actually receive from the food that we're getting,, and whether we are processing it properly.

So, in that sense, the processing comes into it with our gut health, but it also depends on, are we getting the proper nutrients? that we need from our diet work together.

I'm getting used to using chat GPT and,, I guess translating everything to, can you describe this for a 12 year old? Like that kind of like, when I learned something, I'm like, okay, chat GPT, can you simplify this?

In simple terms, are you basically saying like, poor diet, it doesn't like equal psychiatric disorder, mental health problems, but it contributes to it and it can significantly help the outcome of those. Yeah, very much so. And when you say poor diet, what specifically are we talking about? Because I know there's things like, , Is it the fact that we're talking about, obviously the Adventist Health Method message in this as well.

So what about it in the Adventist health message is what we be looking at? Like is it more fruits and vegetables? Is it less fats? Is it like less processed foods? Because I think sometimes when we look at like giving health advice. If we're talking about someone with like mental health struggles, it's hard for someone in that situation to just adopt a completely new, lifestyle in terms of the mental health message in the Adventist church covers like so many different things.

It covers food, it covers sunlight, it covers water. So what are the specific things that we need to kind of be thinking about in order to, help our mental health? That's a good question. Like you mentioned, like there's so many different facets of the Adventist health message, which kind of we could talk about in terms of, yeah, sun exposure, exercise, diet.

, but,, in this context, , What I, what some of the research that I've done is that a lot of our modern diet today, like just the stuff we eat on a regular basis is simply lacking the same quality of, nutrient and vitamin content just because of the way it's processed. Like we have mass farming practices these days, which means that, an apple that's picked from a tree will take two weeks to get to your grocery shop.

And then maybe another week before you actually eat it. If you're like me, I just let the fruit sit there for a little while. But the longer we have between it being picked from the tree, or whatever dug up from the ground and eating it, the nutrients and the vitamins just get depleted and disappear over time.

And so even if we're having, fairly healthy diets or whatever, it can be difficult just for us to get everything that we need to be healthy. And so, in light of that, the recommendations that are made. is not necessarily you have to change your entire diet. You don't have to become a vegan.

You don't have to,, cut out everything and change your life. You just have to be intentional about making specific changes. that you know are going to benefit you. So whether that means, you just add one organically locally picked apple to your diet every day, or you decide,, instead of cereal for breakfast, I'm going to have an egg because that has more protein or, , you just make a simple change that is positive.

And, it actually has a very big difference. Like these small things we don't realize can have a cumulative effect over time for our health. I don't know if that actually answers your question. Well, I guess, I guess if I can just, Reframe what you're saying, or,, we're talking about some of the micronutrients, like the little tiny bits that we can't necessarily see that foods have that are good quality things for us.

And what you're saying is, in our modern diet and our refined processes of making food, sometimes a lot of that is lost. And we're not getting it as nature or as God intended it,, , into our bodies. And so then our cells are going around, this is me paraphrasing what you've sort of explained so far.

Our cells are going around looking for. these nutrients and aren't always getting them. And so they're suffering, they're sick., they're unwell, and that can impact our brains. All of our systems in our body. , but in this context, we're talking about mental health specifically. It's just not necessarily getting the right things.

And I guess, So what's Anita was saying, , yeah, if you've got a chronic condition, you know, there's other things you might need to consider before you get to a point of, Hey, I can completely change my diet or change my routine because I'm struggling with one of these heavy sort of things. But as you mentioned at the start, this is sometimes maybe for prevention as well.

It's good knowledge to know that if we're doing the right things in our diet, we will help , maybe not avoid completely, but minimize some of the impacts of some of these things. Conditions, but also, preemptively preventatively get ahead of them before they happen. So they don't not maybe a severe when they do happen.

And it's also for the not for the chronic chemical imbalances, but the the fluctuating condition. You know, seasonal, we know in Europe, , when it's winter and they're not getting as much sunlight and things that people are feeling worse, people are feeling mentally, they're struggling. And so perhaps having a good diet in the lead up to winter will help your brain process some of those changes.

Can I just add something to that, Jared? I've often heard, , Just on what you were saying, Olivia, I've often heard that, and I've had this first advice received before that it's easier to add things and to like subtract all these things. So I think when people look at their health, they're often like, Oh, I've got to stop eating this and that, but I like what you're saying, Olivia.

, if you start adding things, then the other things will just automatically go. So it's like, if you eat the egg first, then you might not get to the cereal. And it's, just a. Different way of applying things is don't so much think about all the things you have to stop doing But start implementing the better things and the other things will just like slowly kind of go So yeah, yeah like filling your life with all of these good things Then you know if you have a block of chocolate or if you have some corn chips It's not going to have as big of an impact impact if you're eating, like doing all these other positive things, like going for a walk in the sun every day or,, eating an apple for breakfast.

Like, yeah, like you said, just adding these positive things is going to have a bigger positive impact than if you're subtracting a lot of things from your Lifestyle. And it's easier. Anyway, hit it, Jaren. Well, I was just going to say, , to this point, you could be forgiven for tuning in and thinking, Oh, this is a science podcast.

This is a diet,, advice podcast, or we're a podcast about faith and life and church and, and the Adventist,, , church that we're part of. Bring us back to that. What's the link here? How can we understand?, the health message, even perhaps some people may listen to this and be like, what's this?

They're talking about the health message. Can you just give us some context for what the health message is as you understand it, perhaps? And why you think it's such an important or instrumental part of this conversation? , Yeah, from what I've learned in my experience as an Adventist about the Adventist health message is that it's.

It's really this experience, like it's a whole person journey of pursuing a good lifestyle. It's not just related to diet or physical exercise or mental health. It's your whole body and your life. how you live out, how you practice your life, the thoughts you have. And I think it's important for us spiritually because like our, our lives are not just physical.

We have mental lives where we're constantly dwelling in our thoughts and thinking about how things are impacting us. And we have spiritual lives. Where, we, we understand that there's something more to life than just our day to day, there's greater meaning, greater purpose. And, yeah, the Adventist health message talks about the idea of we are spiritual beings.

And the best way for us to connect with God and connect with others and get the most out of life is by doing things which are going to make our physical body stronger. And if our physical body is at its best, our mental and our spiritual will be impacted in a positive way. That's kind of my understanding of things.

I, I can't remember what the other part to your question was.

That's okay. I'm not sure I can either. That was a good, that was a good answer. I like the, , emphasis on holistic living, you know, that our spiritual, our mental, our physical, and even our social is all connected in terms of, , Understanding ourselves as whole people in this day and age. It's so easy to compartmentalize everything.

Like if I'm not doing such and such a thing, like it's just, that will affect this. This will affect that, but really everything's interconnected and seeing it like that gives us the best chance to, , live good lives. You mentioned in your article, , the blue zone study, right? So the concept.

And maybe just tell us as we go on a bit about the blue zones, but the blue zones is about people living longer, but it's also people living better as in having a higher quality of life for longer. So you can tell us a little bit about how that applies to us as Adventists and what we maybe can learn from those blue zone studies.

Yeah. So there's, , something that I mentioned in my article is, yeah, the blue zones in particular Loma Linda, which is our Adventist center in California, where a blue zone in general is a location in the world where the population of that city or town lives on average to at least 80 years or more.

That's what a blue zone is. And Loma Linda is very unique. In the sense that of all of the blue zones, I think there's six or seven around the world. Loma Linda, their average is not just 80. But it's 90. And so these people have like an extremely extended lifestyle. And it's actually a, well recorded fact that Adventists on average live around 10 to 11 years longer than other Christians or non Christians around the world.

But something that I didn't put in my article, which I found really interesting was that the individuals at Loma Linda. They were studied by an outside organization for psychology purposes. And they found that people at Loma Linda in this blue zone who were living according to these, , lifestyle diet, spiritual principles, they actually had no record of mental, diseases or mental illnesses in their population.

Now, I didn't put that in my article because I hadn't, triple checked the fact, but it is printed research, which is,, in a journal out there somewhere, that,, yeah, Adventists at Loma Linda who are pursuing, , learning. They love to learn and learn. connect with people and have an active spiritual social life and also getting out there doing exercise, eating well.

They're just, they're thriving. It's not just that they're avoiding the pandemic. They're actually doing really well. Yeah, that's crazy. They have no, especially when mental health stuff is, seems to be becoming a bigger and bigger problem, especially I feel like psychiatric disorders are becoming more and more popular.

So they have found. No, a little trace and that is crazy. But I think often when non Adventists here of like the Adventist health message, they often hear of like our diet, the fact that we don't eat meat. And they often hear of the fact that we don't drink alcohol. And that's kind of like the general gist of it.

But what's interesting is about, , I guess that you mentioned that Adventists on average live 10 to 11 years longer. So sociologists who haven't been associated with Adventists also have also done studies showing that if you add up the amount of time that Adventists spend in terms of like years, , practicing the Sabbath, it kind of like they do this whole equation, but it basically equates to they've practiced the Sabbath for 10 to 11 years.

And so you could say that they're living longer because they're spending more time resting and in community than like. the specifics of our diet. Like it's kind of one of those things where it's like probably an accumulation of things. I know that, , the Adventist fellow, I think like the depression recovery program, the Nedley depression recovery program.

And I think the live more project has looked at this as well, that acronym called new start, which is eight different. Things that fall under the health message. I don't know if you know about that at all I'm not very good at remembering I guess the gist is that there's like eight, eight different principles under our health message, like core things.

And so, um, yeah, it's not just like our diet and we don't just have to focus on that, but it's like a whole umbrella of things that, think between us, we could get the eight. Zenita, should we set the challenge? New N is for nutrition. I think. Is that right? E is for exercise.

Yeah. W is for. Water. Have drinking, drinking enough water. S. T. Sunshine. Oh, S, yeah, sorry. Sunshine. T. Or temperance. Temperance. Explain what that means, Zenita. , I guess that's like self control. So, I think it would probably be considering things like overeating, alcohol abuse, addictive behaviors. Yeah, that's my understanding.

Air. Air. Fresh air. Yeah. R.

Rest. Rest and T. Trust in God. Trust in God. Very good. The eight elements of wellness. We did get there. See, I knew we could do it. Well done.

, I have a question, I guess about all this. I feel like when people, since we're talking specifically about, mental health , , I feel like when people are experiencing mental health struggles, , they often will be advised, like we said at the start of this podcast, and we will probably advise at the end, if you're struggling, go see, , a professional, , and I guess from my experience, when I've gone to,, counsellors or psychologists, , it's more of , oh yeah, you talk about the problem, but a lot of the times these things aren't addressed.

, I don't really remember going to a counselling session, unless it's been with an Adventist, , but there's quite a few of those available. They don't, I guess they don't follow the same principles as us. And maybe they don't have the awareness of the impact of all these, , you know, maybe the new start thing.

So how people know, or, obviously we still want them to go and see these professionals, but sometimes things like. Can actually have a really big impact on our mental health. And so how can people know what they should be doing or what they should be changing in order to experience like relief in those areas?

That's a really good question. And I think. something that a lot of people would be struggling with. , something that I think would be very important to mention is if, if someone has been in a state of whether it's depression or anxiety or feeling unwell mentally for longer than three months consecutively, that is considered chronic.

mental unwellness and should definitely mean that that person goes to see a professional for counseling or for other therapies. That is probably your best delineation to know when you should seek professional help. That said, if you have, any experiences of depression, anxiety or other conditions, It's never too early to see a professional.

And the thing with professionals is that , they're trained in order to counsel you through , cognitive behavioral therapies and treatments, which are very specific and targeted at your condition, whatever it may be. The health principles, which we, I've outlined in this article, they're very broad and very general and so they can have a positive impact on a wide variety of conditions or illnesses.

But that said, it doesn't mean it'll have a targeted and very specific directed impact. I did mention a few, , conditions in my article, which. outline that diet can have quite a targeted impact in particular the ketogenic diet for schizophrenia where it's actually used as a treatment. However, when I say this, it's a professional a professional psychologist who is giving this treatment and this advice to a client to take, , to go down this diet pathway.

, so I think for individuals who are struggling with mental health, struggles. Putting in these practices of lifestyle is never going to do any harm. It's always going to have a positive impact. That said, it's not a be all and end all cure for all problems. It's always very important to discuss what you're actually dealing with a professional.

Yeah, and I guess that's the difference between going to the emergency room in the hospital because something's seriously wrong. , Sometimes they will only fix the problem that you're having right in that moment. They won't necessarily be able to help you with the lifestyle things that you can change to.

deal with the long term impacts of that. And it's the same with mental health. I think there's some stigma around mental health and mental illness that, that terminology I heard,, Simon Sinek, I think was describing it as mental fitness or something like that concept. So I guess the idea that we can actually impact our own mental health by exercising that muscle or, preparing ourselves better in advance, preemptively thinking about how can I live a happy, wholesome, well life?

We've had a rich conversation today. As we draw to the close, , we often end with something practical, but in, in some ways, this whole conversation has been practical. Some things we can implement in our own lives, , some little things we could do to, , give us more balance, give us more a whole person health and help.

, so maybe I'll just throw it open to you guys. Is there anything you guys want to say to finish this conversation that we just need to emphasize or that you think could be something that could help someone who's listening to this conversation? , and they're thinking, Oh, maybe these are a bit hard. I don't, I don't really know how to start.

, what would you say someone listening or watching this conversation? I think, , something very important to start off with saying is if you are struggling with, any sort of mental unwellness, the first thing you should know is that you're not alone. About 40 to 50 percent of Australians go through either anxiety or depression or other forms of,, mental struggles.

every year. , so if you are going through things, it's okay. It's not your fault. It's just the way that our world is made. That's putting a lot of pressure onto us and impacting us in our lifestyle and our diets. So that's one thing that I think is important to say at the outset. But in terms of stuff you can I guess do or take away from this is there are very simple things that can be done which can improve your position.

It can improve your mental state and it can be as simple as , drinking water. I know, I've struggled with discipline and being, , proactive in doing what I set out to do, especially when it comes to diet. Oh, I love chocolate too much. but just having, one goal, it can be very, very simple.

Having a glass of water every morning when you wake up or doing stretches before you go to bed or. eating, something green every day, or maybe even just once a week, just having a very small achievable goal that,, you can do that sometimes better for you than,, a complete radical change to your lifestyle, because it's something you are in charge of.

You're in control of, and you are achieving it. It gives you that sense of, wow, , I've done something. I've accomplished something and it's making me better. I think,, just, just our abilities. to treat ourselves just in that little way, give ourselves that sense of accomplishment is beneficial to, for our mental health journeys.

Yeah, I'd probably just second that I experienced mental health struggles for a few years. And I think it, when you're experiencing mental health problems, your motivation is a lot lower. So it's actually really hard, even though, even though we might know these things about like, Exercise is really good for mental health and food is really good.

It can be really hard when you're feeling that like depression or other things to actually do those things. Cause you're just not as motivated. , and so I think I would just second what you said, Olivia, like just trying to do one thing a day, whether it's, okay, today I'm just going to focus on getting sunlight or today I'm just going to focus on going on a gentle walk or today I'm just going to try to eat one good meal.

So just not, yeah. I guess trying to overachieve things and being disappointed, but just having grace on yourself in that period and yeah, trying to do one small thing., yeah. I liked that you mentioned just offering yourself grace. , if you miss a day or if you miss a week or two weeks, that's okay.

You've still got the attitude that you want to change. And that's, a good place to start. And I guess in the spirit of R U OK? Day, if you,, want to ask friends and families to be there for them, sometimes it's not a professional that you find, you have the experience. Ability to seek out first.

Sometimes that's such a hard step. Maybe just talk to someone, , they may not be able to help you. You can't look at them as the solution to all your problems, but reach out, this week or be someone who is easy to reach out to, that's also important, if you're in a season of life where you're not, , Dealing with some of this stuff.

That's great. , but are you a person who someone else can approach and get some support and , some love from, , Hey, we've fast run out of time today. Thank you, Olivia. Thank you, Zanita. A interesting conversation as always. And we'll see you again next week on Record Live. Thanks for having me.