Record Live Podcast

When the Bible doesn_t have the answers
Intro: [00:00:00] Hi there, everyone. I'm Jared. And I'm Zanita. We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church, faith, and living well. We believe as followers of Jesus, faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we put into practice. Let's go live.
Zanita Fletcher: Hello everyone . This is our first episode officially back for the year. So welcome back, Jared. How are you feeling?
Jarrod Stackelroth: I'm thinking, where did January and most of February go?
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, I know, I heard, I saw a lot of people posting in January that it was going on for forever, as if January was a whole year in itself. Which I didn't really feel was the case, but I thought it was quite quickly. It's already nearly the end of February, which is crazy to me, [00:01:00] but we're embracing it.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Hey, we're just rolling with it here, aren't we, Zanita? We're just getting into it. Lots to do, lots to keep doing, but, , Yeah, very excited to be back, because we've spoken about this before, but Record Live is one of our favorite parts. Chatting with you, Zanita, is awesome, and, , some of the topics that we get to discuss are really interesting.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , and we love our audience feedback , and comments, et cetera. And the podcast has been going well. So yeah, I'm really glad to be back for 2025.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah. Awesome. And thank you everyone for joining us again. If you are listening or watching, we would love to know where you are listening or watching from.
Zanita Fletcher: , we'd love to know what you're excited for record live this year or what you would love to listen to. . But today we are talking about a bit of a, Oh, I don't know if I see conversation. , but. It's certainly an interesting one. We're talking about when the Bible doesn't have all of the answers. And just a disclaimer, we're not talking about, , the big existential questions of life.
Zanita Fletcher: Like we believe that the Bible has the answers to [00:02:00] those things, but we're more so talking about, the ones that are more specific to our own lives. The ones that there's not really a textbook answer for in the Bible. And it's just an interesting topic, I guess, because I think probably At some stage or another, you and I, Jared, and probably everyone listening , has had a situation in their life, and they've gone to the bus, flicked through all the pages, and tried to find an answer, and they've just been left.
Zanita Fletcher: Probably disappointed or confused or whatever. So, yeah, I guess I'd just like to open this up to you, Jared. , I heard a pastor recently talk about this idea that we are living in the post Bible Christian era, where we've still got people who consider themselves spiritual. Still got people who consider themselves Christians, but people aren't necessarily turning to the Bible so much anymore, or people are just like leaving it on the shelf because they find it confusing.
Zanita Fletcher: With the whole cultural context thing, they don't have the answers they're looking for in there. And so they're just sort of abandoning it, , which is really sad. , but it's just, yeah, an interesting conversation, like why that's happening, but I'd love to know, Jared, , what your [00:03:00] experience has been with the Bible.
Zanita Fletcher: Have you ever had a situation where you've been looking for an answer in there and yeah, tell us about it.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I think we've all done the thing. I'm going to say a prayer. I'm going to flick through the Bible and I'm going to find the answer where my finger lands sort of, you know, and I don't know. It's funny because my experience doing that or the one that comes to mind, I've probably done it more than once, but the one that comes to mind.
Jarrod Stackelroth: as the most strongest sort of memory or impression. , I actually did find what I was looking for. I kind of knew what I was looking for, but it was also, it spoke to me in a very difficult time in my life. I was feeling really down. , I decided to, , express my thoughts on paper as a writer.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I thought if I write a poem, I'll feel better because I can express how I'm feeling. I wrote this poem. And I started talking about this [00:04:00] darkness that I felt, this burden that was weighing me down, this sort of stress and existential crisis that I was going through. And the poetry Sort of switched it personified this darkness.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And then there was this light that came in. It was almost like overcoming, overpowering this hope. It's not ultimate darkness. There is hope that Jesus offers. And I opened, I got down on my knees. I was like, wow, this was like God speaking to me. And I opened my Bible and I found, , I think it's in John.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I, I wasn't prepared for this question, so I don't have the exact reference, but it's basically like. I am the light of the world, anyone who comes to me, , there is no darkness in them. And there is no darkness in me basically. And it's like, it was this light fighting back this darkness that I was trying to express in my poetic catharsis.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It came out in the Bible when I opened a few pages. Now I wasn't specifically, [00:05:00] I don't know, looking for that verse, but it was like, it hit me. Now, having said that, I think there are some dangers in reading the Bible like that. Just expecting, , it's a magic crystal ball. We look into the Bible and we'll find the answers and I guess that's what we're exploring today.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So while that story was really impactful and it was a purpose. , giving verse in my life. It really spoke to what I needed at the time. I don't think if we always read the Bible like that, it's the healthiest thing. , we've got to take into consideration that the Bible contains different genres. I think today our conversation will cover how to read the different types of the Bible.
Jarrod Stackelroth: What the Bible maybe was designed for and purpose for, as opposed to how we read it. And even, I think even the methods and techniques of reading it have changed, , when the Bible was written, it was meant [00:06:00] to be used in some kind of communal and reciting, , It was to be memorized and mulled over, meditated on, and yet today we use it as a proof text method.
Jarrod Stackelroth: What's your favorite verse? Pull it out. Use that verse in whatever context you face in your life. And so I don't want to limit God's power because I think the Holy Spirit can use your proof text that you've taken out of context to give you encouragement in your life. But it doesn't necessarily give us, I guess, the breadth of faith or the depth.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Of faith to use the Bible like that. It can become a very shallow consumption of the Bible. So I guess, yeah. What about you Zanita, have you had any experience with like looking for answers and finding or not finding them?
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, for sure. I've had a few, , definitely I have found, I don't know if I've found specific answers when I've sought for them in the Bible, but I've definitely found feelings, like I've [00:07:00] definitely found things like peace when I needed it or,, Yeah, yeah, I found multiple things, but I think maybe about a year or so, I was figuring out a decision in my life where I was, like, really trying to seek God's wisdom for it, and I was turning to the Bible, and I was praying, and I was asking people, and I knew that, like, if I went down this road, that my life would look this way, and if I went down this road, my life would look a different way.
Zanita Fletcher: But I didn't know, like, I didn't know what to do, and I was really stressed about it, and, the Bible obviously didn't have an answer for me, and even in the multitude of counsellors, as it says in, I think it says it in Proverbs, like, there is wisdom in a multitude of counsellors. Even in asking various different people, I, I got so many different responses and so I was just like a bit stumped and I was left a bit frustrated because it was something that I was praying over and seeking wisdom over, , and just didn't know what to do.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, so , I guess I did definitely experience frustration there, but I think I've started to look at the Bible in a slightly different way. And I think I've [00:08:00] started to see that God obviously gives us choice. And so sometimes there is like there's no answer. It's just like. Pick something and stick with it or definitely go on that journey of asking people for wisdom and you know trying to figure out the best thing to do but Yeah, he obviously gives us freedom and he's not gonna have an answer for us for everything So yeah, I guess it's interesting.
Zanita Fletcher: I've I feel like I've been to the Bible before found answers and really like been satisfied with what I found, but then it's been the opposite. ,
Jarrod Stackelroth: Yeah, it, it plays into what you're bringing up here for me is like free will, the concept of, , our life and God's plan for that life. And, , I guess it's easy to.
Jarrod Stackelroth: To fall into the trap of, or the idea of God's got one set plan for my life. And if I make a wrong decision, I'm off the path. I'm off the straight and narrow path. And I, I've messed it up. And I guess that just [00:09:00] highlights, I think one of the dangers I've come to believe, , that God can use us. He's not so interested in what we choose if we have two big decisions say it's like, is it this job or is it that job he's more interested in, are we giving him glory no matter what we do, are we taking him with us on the journey of life and even that is a reframing, like, for how we read the Bible, do we read the Bible looking for the answer to which job do I take or do we read the Bible as a, A character building, projects that will help us to be better people, no matter the sphere of influence, no matter the space that we're in.
Zanita Fletcher: I
Jarrod Stackelroth: think that's a very important distinction.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, I think that's a good point. Like, the Bible could be much clearer if it wanted to be. It could be much more overt if it wanted to be. But I think, , probably is most of our experience in the Bible is that a lot of things we really have to [00:10:00] sit over and strew over and mull over and think over.
Zanita Fletcher: And sometimes I don't know if you've ever had this experience where you've read a passage and you're like, Oh, that seems pretty clear. And then, I don't know, a year or two later, you're like, Oh, that didn't, that's not saying what I always thought it was saying, or that's saying something completely different.
Zanita Fletcher: , and so, yeah, I don't know. I think it's almost like, the more that we spend time in scripture, we, the more that we learn about God's character and about his morals. , and then we can kind of say, you know, the classic WWJD, what Jesus do. We might not necessarily find those answers in the Bible, but we start to understand him more and what the best thing might be.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Hebrews 4 verse 12, I really like this verse for the word of God is living and active sharper than any two edged sword piercing to the division of soul and spirit of joints and marrow. The discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart just comes to mind that, as you said, we can get.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Two different meanings out of the same passage, two different [00:11:00] years or different times we read them because we've changed and the passage is speaking into us differently. And I guess if the Bible was really proscriptive, like it, it gave us like, I think the Pharisees had 613 rules for life sort of thing.
Jarrod Stackelroth: If it was. Just, this is all the rules. You must do this, you mustn't do this. This is how to live. I guess we would end up with a situation where we were very, , legalistic, rules focused. And it would take out free will. It's like you are a robot, you either succeed or you fail. And in, in a sense to take that to the nth degree, it would take away the need for Jesus.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Because if the Bible was a step by step, how to live guide, you have to do this, you have to do that. You have to do the other thing. Where does Jesus fit into that? Where does grace fit into that? You know, , because we could. We could have the blueprint to life, we could [00:12:00] live our lives in a perfect way in some senses.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So I'm just looking at the end, the end result of what that might look like. But, I guess we should ask the obvious question. Is the Bible a guidebook, a step by step guide to life?
Zanita Fletcher: Instructions before leaving earth.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Some people like to say that. Yeah, but is that, is that oversimplified? It's a nice, it's a nice thought.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It's a nice idea, but is it true?
Zanita Fletcher: I don't know. I feel like, when we think it is that we miss, , a really awesome aspect that it's like, to me, the Bible is a story. And if we take little parts out. Then, , we might think of it as basic instructions. If we just consider it like a reference book or we go to the table of contents and try find how to deal with stress or how to sleep at night or whatever, then.
Zanita Fletcher: , we're treating it as like a reference book or whatever. But I think if we do that, then we are missing the beautiful story [00:13:00] that is scripture and that is the gospel. And , that is where we see so much of the character of God. And that is what kind of gives us wisdom will help us navigate difficult situations.
Zanita Fletcher: , so that's how I would respond to it, but. What do you think, Jarrod?
Jarrod Stackelroth: Well, I think it's part of, we should be glad it's not a rule book for life, because it's, it's part of evidence that God's hand is involved. Because if you or I were to start a religion, I think we would want to set out some fairly clear, standards and rules for our followers.
Jarrod Stackelroth: We would want some, practices to follow. And there is some of that in the Bible, , Levitical laws are all listed there. But at the same time that dates it very quickly, , if you've ever tried to do anything that's current relevant, , interesting, you find it dates very quickly.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And yet the Bible still has things in it for us today. And I can only attribute that to God's hand. Across it, , if it was human ingenuity [00:14:00] trying to put this thing together, there are so many books, there are so many different genres, different styles, and yet you can pull out cohesive threads and themes where the Bible builds on itself.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And it gives you a really good bedrock, a good foundation for faith. If I had done it, I would have done it very differently. And that sort of. His evidence that God did it, because it's so much better than you could imagine. Even in the, at the same time, seeming like it's, disjointed, disconnected, contradictory in some places.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It might seem that way, but,, the more you study it, the more you meditate on it, the more you see those beautiful themes coming through. I don't think you can attribute it to human authorship. As in, humans authored it, but God was directing and leading them to do that.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm, yeah, I think it's, I think it's probably important to know that it's like, not wrong that people opening the Bible [00:15:00] asking personal questions like, Who am I?
Zanita Fletcher: Or why is my relationship falling apart? Or what job should I take? Like, it's not wrong that we're, we're doing that. And at one point or another, some of the stories might directly connect to our problem, but a lot of the times that won't be the case. Right. , we have a comment here, Linnell. If I were to leave a document for my kids at my passing, I would like it to be stories and not instructions.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, so true.
Jarrod Stackelroth: That's, it's a great thought. And, I love this stat. I give it often in my workshops that stories are 22 times more memorable than facts. So if the Bible was just facts, it would be hard to get your head around. But so much of it is stories. There's personal histories. Jesus tells parables and stories and.
Jarrod Stackelroth: The good thing about Jesus stories, as opposed to say, I was listening to a literary podcast recently, and, , it was talking about, , the children's literature of the 18 and 1900s and how it was [00:16:00] very didactic. It had a lesson that was clear, it would tell the story, and then there was a moral of the story.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It would give you the moral. And yet so often Jesus didn't give a moral. And I think that's what you were reflecting on before. There's two or three different levels. To the parable, and so the subtlety of it, , and I know the Bible, , the Bible project podcast talk often about , the Bible being wisdom literature or meditation literature, , especially certain sections, like some of it is just historic, some of it is whatever, but , the tradition of the rabbis and Jesus in that tradition was to give people something to think about.
Jarrod Stackelroth: To work their brains around, to dwell on. And I think that's because there can be, , multiple levels of meaning to some of the stories that, that Jesus tells. There can be multiple lessons you could get out of it. And I think that's much more [00:17:00] useful in a scripture, in a holy book than say, here's the black and white moral, here's the story, here's what happened, and here's what you should learn about it.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Like it takes a lot of the. The personal wrestling away. , And Israel was he who wrestled with God. Right? , we saw him renamed. We saw God's special chosen people being people who, who wrestled with God, who had to, journey with God and figure out what that looked like as they went along. And they made a lot of mistakes, but God kept calling them back to himself.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And so I think that's an important part of our faith journey. If we've arrived at all the answers, yeah. If everything's a hundred percent clear to us and we have no more to learn, no more that the Holy Spirit can teach us, I think we're in danger of setting up God in our own image rather than actually continuing to learn from the Bible and from Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, very good points. I'm interested in this wisdom literature concept. , I've been reading through [00:18:00] Proverbs this year. I've been kind of going through a chapter a day, and this is kind of what inspired this conversation, because, , in Proverbs, there's quite a few contradictions, and some of them are like, in chapter 1, and then 16, like, it's spread apart, and you're like, hang on, didn't it say this before, and some of them are literally like, this verse says this, and the next verse says the opposite thing, like, I'll give you an example.
Zanita Fletcher: In 26, 26 four, it says, do not answer a fool according to his folly or you yourself will be just like him. And then the next verse 26 five says, answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes. So it's like saying the opposite thing straight after one another, which it's like, Well, hang on a minute, like, I'm going to the Bible for wisdom, but now you're giving me two different things, , which I think is, I don't know, just interesting, but, I'm curious about this wisdom literature because it seems like a lot of the Bible sometimes requires wisdom to be able to unpack it and understand it.
Zanita Fletcher: And I know that you can obviously read the Bible just with a simple mind and get a lot out of it as well, but I feel like often, , it [00:19:00] does require like an element of wisdom. But what do we do if we don't? Have that wisdom like what do we do if we're just a youngin and we're like opening the Bible for the first time and we you know Haven't gained that yet or like,, how do we become wise so that we can better understand scriptures and open them and know that like, we're not following some, , first century laws.
Zanita Fletcher: You know what I mean?
Jarrod Stackelroth: Yeah, I definitely know what you mean. I think, A fool says in his heart, there is no God. So the seat seat of wisdom, the seed of wisdom is to dwell on God, to meditate , on God and his character. , wisdom to me, when I think of the word wisdom, I think of it this way. Someone probably broke this down at some point in my life and it's stuck with me.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Wisdom is knowledge and experience. It needs those sort of two parts. It's okay to know a lot of facts. But if you don't know how to apply those facts, it's not worth [00:20:00] anything the same way. If you have a lot of experience, but you don't have the knowledge, you may not be able to pass that on as wisdom.
Jarrod Stackelroth: You may not be able to make things better. You just might know intimately how something works, but. It's no use to anyone else. So I think those two things is especially important. And the other thing I would say to the contradictions , in proverbs, especially having two right next to each other. , it reminds me of in one of my writing workshops, I have, , different points that I give people when they're writing.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And so my first point, one of the points in, in this list is make sure you give people what they expect. And so the name of this broadcast today, when the Bible doesn't have the answers, we need to talk about people would expect that we're talking about the Bible
Zanita Fletcher: and
Jarrod Stackelroth: what answers it does and doesn't have.
Jarrod Stackelroth: You have to deliver what you do. And the same thing in your writing. If you put a title on something, you give them what they expect. I say first, [00:21:00] give me what I expect. If you want to write something that's good, give me what I expect. The very next point surprised me.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And I do that because it's like, well, I do want what I expect and I do want to be surprised. I want a twist or something to make it interesting. I want you to bring me something that's new, that's different. And in the same way, I think the writer of Proverbs potentially is giving you like two right answers.
Jarrod Stackelroth: But you have to be discerning on what the situation calls for. Some fools need to be shut down and shut up actively and some fools you ignore and distance yourself from because that will not make , their message or , their fame, their highlight,, go any further. , We can probably see a lot of fools and influencers on social media.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And they're given a platform, even when we disagree with them, by arguing them back and forth, the [00:22:00] algorithm goes, Ooh, this person's generating time and comments on the internet. We're going to profile them more. , and so in that thing, you might go, well, I'm going to disengage completely. But in real life, if they're saying something and other people who are vulnerable are standing around, you might want to answer their foolishness so that other people aren't, you know, it's not a stumbling block for them.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So I guess two things can be seemingly contradictory on the surface. And
Zanita Fletcher: still good advice.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Still true.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah.
Jarrod Stackelroth: But you have to discern what circumstance or what situation that should be best used in. And that's where experience comes in, wisdom, because yeah, that's how I know that. How do I know that?
Jarrod Stackelroth: Because I've had situations in my life. It's like I treat this situation in this way, but it doesn't work in this situation. How do I change the situation to make it work [00:23:00] better?
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm, yeah, it helped me when I was reading through the Proverbs when I learned that Proverbs, by definition, are statements that are generally true, , but they're not, like, they're wisdom and they're not a formula, so.
Zanita Fletcher: And I think when it's, like, so close, when it's back to back, like, this verse and then this verse says something different, it's like, they're so close together that they're obviously intentional, like, the contradictions are trying to tell us something, it's trying to get us to think, which. , I think when we sit with scripture, we really have to, , think over it and, as you said, wrestle with it.
Zanita Fletcher: And in doing so, I guess that wisdom, apparently, but,
Jarrod Stackelroth: We, we have to wrestle with it also because ancient writing is very different. , Lin, Linnell talks about the context of the writing , and the difference over thousands of years of cultural change, , that can make. The other thing I'd say about that is cultural, Cultural differences, we can use Bible translation tools, we can use experts to understand, but at the end of the day, like, what the Bible [00:24:00] doesn't do, which we like to do in our modern movies or culture, is to tell you what the character is thinking and feeling.
Jarrod Stackelroth: The Bible just describes what happened and so we don't actually know what God is thinking and feeling in some context, for example, Solomon says to cut the baby in half and the outcome is a good one because the real mother is revealed and the baby saved and the mother saved and the, but we don't then go around and go, , if there's any dispute, parental disputes, we should cut the Kidding.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Why we should do that as a law. , do you know what I mean? And so with missing detail, not knowing what the characters are thinking, not knowing, , some of the background of certain things in scenarios, some stuff in the Bible can seem really confusing to us, but that's where I guess meditating on it.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Trying to understand the cultural background, trying to understand the nuance, understanding the genre it was written [00:25:00] in, understanding the cultural conditions at the time, those things can help us. To do that, we should also put the disclaimer on that. You don't need to be a scholar to have the word of God speak to you.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I think I really do believe that the Holy Spirit takes the limited tools and understandings that we have. And he will make the Bible as we read before in that verse living and active, right? He will give that to us, but we can. increase ourselves in those tools to become better students of the Bible. And I think our wisdom and our insight can only grow.
Jarrod Stackelroth: There are so many modern situations that the Bible doesn't write about, doesn't speak into, , there were no cars. There was no internet. There was no, , IVF and surrogacy, and all of those sort of, , reproductive things. There was no, you could [00:26:00] list endless things that aren't mentioned in the Bible, but it's about finding principles as well.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It's important when, we're moving into practically, how do we apply this? We look at situations and scenarios where we can find principles that we can apply. to other situations, everyday life.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a really good thing to land on, is like, look for the principles and look for the heart of God, and that will help you navigate through, life's difficulties.
Zanita Fletcher: But I guess to land the plane, I'm shook, Jared, that it's already 28 minutes into the conversation. I feel like we've just started, right? , I guess to land the plane, would you like to end things practically? I guess just like badgering off our title, like when the Bible doesn't have answers. If there was someone who was listening, who was struggling to know what to do with some situation in life, what would you, what would your advice to them be?
Zanita Fletcher: How should they go about it?
Jarrod Stackelroth: The Bible is not the only tool that we have available at our disposal. [00:27:00] Some of the most difficult times in my life, I've resorted to fasting and prayer. It's been hard to read the Bible. Right. Reading the Bible is helpful, but there's also other avenues and the Holy Spirit, I think, can speak to our hearts and our lives.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , he might bring back Bible verses. He might direct us which part of the Bible to read that will give us hope and encouragement. But also we might just find answers and navigate the situation in the prayer or the fasting season that we go through. So look, the Bible doesn't necessarily claim. To have every answer to every question that you're going to have, but a good grounding in the Bible will help to bolster your faith, encourage you and keep you, closer to God.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , it's God's revealed word to us. It's a revelation of God and who he is and his character. And I think the Bible is invaluable for that. , but it's not the only tool we have at our So, yeah, I just encourage people to, to look for answers in [00:28:00] the Bible, to look for principles, but not , to necessarily, you know, people say, read the Bible plainly and just do what it says.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And I, I think you need more nuance than that. I think you need more understanding than that to actually live well with the Bible. So those are some thoughts yourself, Zanita, , where would you like to leave us? A word of wisdom.
Zanita Fletcher: A word of wisdom. , yeah, I think like we talked about the Bible, sometimes it's not as clear or sometimes we, like this has come up a number of times, sometimes we have to wrestle with things.
Zanita Fletcher: And I think in our day and age, we like to get quick answers and quick fixes to things. So I would just say, that I guess. With timing comes wisdom. So just sit with things, wrestle with things, definitely seek advice and pray over things and still go to the Bible, like absolutely still go to the Bible.
Zanita Fletcher: But, yeah, I guess don't go to it expecting that it's just going to give you a hint right away. , so yeah, go on that journey. , we've both been there, I guess we, if anyone is needing advice, Jared is very wise, you can drop comments in [00:29:00] our messages, but, no, it's definitely a journey. So I guess that's .
Zanita Fletcher: Where I'd leave it.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Awesome. Hey, thanks for watching this week guys. Thanks Zanita for your stimulating ideas and conversation as always. We're looking forward to journeying with you guys in 2025. , let us know what you'd like us to talk about, or if there's any guests or interviews you'd like us to do, we'll be very excited to journey with you this year.
Jarrod Stackelroth: God bless and we'll see you next week on Record Live.