Record Live Podcast

Unpacking_the_Bible_in_community
[00:00:00] Hi there, everyone. I'm Jared. And I'm Zenita. We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church, faith, and living well. We believe as followers of Jesus, faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we put into practice. Let's go live.
Jesse Herford: Mhm.
Jarrod Stackelroth: live. We're here again. We're doing something a little different today and we're excited about it. So, welcome . We have Zanita back her world travels. How have you been Zanita? We've missed you for the past few weeks. Tell us where you've been in a nutshell and what you've been up to.
Zanita Fletcher: I went to Nepal and Indonesia. I was just like [00:01:00] hiking in Nepal, which was awesome. , I tried to be off my phone as much as possible, so I don't really have any idea what's been happening on record live in the last few weeks, but I'm glad to be back.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Well, I'm glad that you got off your phone. I think that's very healing in this day and age to, have a bit of a fast from digital stuff. And I'm glad you don't know what's happening. , we don't expect you to work on leave and I'm glad you had a good time. And we are also joined by a friend of the show, regular guest, fantastic co worker.
Jarrod Stackelroth: in the field, . Pastor Jesse Herford.
Jesse Herford: I'm just, I'm working along in the field guys, just working along, coworking, shoveling that hay.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Jesse, for those that don't know, is the Associate Editor of Signs of the Times, a product that Zanida and Jesse and I also work on, as well as record from time to time. We, we do a bit of work from time to time, the rest of the time we just have fun, I think. No, [00:02:00] we're all flat out. Terribly busy.
Jesse Herford: I was gonna say, you make it sound like we just work sometimes when you've just described a very hectic workload for all of us.
Zanita Fletcher: Okay.
Jarrod Stackelroth: bit because it is a lot, but we having fun while doing it does definitely help to ease the load. , We're doing something a little different today. It fits well within the parameters of what we try and do on Record Live, which is to explore faith, , in a very practical way, , to look at how we live as Christians.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And I'm sure. All of us have been in a situation where we don't have a lot of time. We have to go to a Bible study or a midweek cell group or something. , maybe we've even been tasked to lead that group and we just haven't had a lot of prep time and we're like, wow, how do I do this? Or perhaps we've woken up and thought.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I've got some spare [00:03:00] time this morning. I need to prioritize my devotional and we open the Bible and we just don't know where to start. How do we get something out of this? digging into God's word. , And I guess we should say, , it's probably helpful to read the Bible, not for what you can get out of it, but just to be reading it, , and trusting that the Holy Spirit will be working in that space.
Jarrod Stackelroth: But we thought today for our topic, since Zanita's just arrived back, , we wouldn't, , necessarily do something too intense. We'll open the Bible, and this could be a really funny experiment for us to just dig into God's word, and to Even model for you guys, how we might tackle it. We're all people with different experiences, different backgrounds, , different stories.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , but there's something I've always found very powerful about reading God's word in community. When I read it in my prayer closet at home with the door shut, you know,
Jesse Herford: [00:04:00] um,
Jarrod Stackelroth: something out of it. Definitely. There's prayer and there's spiritual things that happen, but I learn so much more when I'm reading it with others, teaching others, learning from others, having conversations where we're all even just peers unpacking the passage.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And then someone says something and it triggers an idea for me and I grow and , I have a contribution that I make. And some people might say. Wow, that was really insightful and all honesty, like it wasn't coming from me. It was from the idea that was shared previously and from the Holy Spirit, like using that to , hit me with this passage in a whole new way.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So we're going to try and demonstrate that today. This is a passage that we're not really super familiar with. We kind of picked, , the third book of John, the third letter of John, John three or third John. Because if you say john three, people might go to the gospel of john chapter three. And so if you're watching, if you'd like to follow along, open your bibles to [00:05:00] the third letter of john and we're going to read it together and we're going to unpack it.
Jarrod Stackelroth: We're going to learn and grow together and we pray that God is in that space. So what we'll do I think it's important when we open the word of God and if I was at a Bible study or a devotional leading something, is open with a prayer, ask the Holy Spirit to be with us. So let's do that now. And we might flip the script a little bit, Zanita, I might get you to read the first eight verses.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And then I'll read the last because I've been talking too much and we want to hear your voice instead. So let's pray and we'll get into the reading of it. Dear Lord, thank you for your love for us. Thank you for the opportunity to read your word. , many people throughout history haven't had that opportunity and many people even in the world today don't have access to the Bible.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And so we, we're thankful, we're grateful for that opportunity. As we read today, may your Holy Spirit work on our hearts and the hearts of those listening to, to learn, [00:06:00] to grow, and to fill up our cups as we speak to each other. And we thank you. , have two or three gathered in your name. So Lord, we know that your presence will be with us and that you will, , give us insight , and your holy wisdom , to, help our own practical spiritual journeys that we're on.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , we pray these things in Jesus name. Amen.
Jesse Herford: I'm in.
Zanita Fletcher: it reads, The Elder, To my friend, Gaius, whom I love in the truth. Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well. It gave me great joy when some believers came and testified about your faithfulness to the truth.
Zanita Fletcher: Telling how you continue to walk in it. I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth. Dear [00:07:00] friend, you are faithful in what you are doing for the brothers and sisters, even though they are strangers to you. They have told the church about your love. Please send them on their way in a manner that honors God.
Zanita Fletcher: It was for the sake of the name that they went out, receiving no help from the pagans. We ought, therefore, to show hospitality to such people so that we may work together for the truth. Over to you, Jessie.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Yeah.
Jesse Herford: To me,
Jarrod Stackelroth: Go ahead. Um,
Jesse Herford: is evil, but imitate what is good. Whoever does good is from God. [00:08:00] Whoever does evil has not seen God. Everyone has testified favorably about Demetrius and so has the truth itself. We also testify for him and you know that our testimony is true. I have much to write to you, but I would rather not write with pen and ink.
Jesse Herford: Instead, I hope to see you soon, and we will talk together face to face. Peace to you, the friends send you their greetings. Greet the friends there, each by name. And that was from the NRSV. UE, technically.
Jarrod Stackelroth: we've read together the third book of john, the third letter of john, it's
Jesse Herford: The whole
Jarrod Stackelroth: fairly short. It fits on a half a page. Yeah, it's on half a page of my Bible. So very much is a letter. And I guess it's important when looking at the Bible to understand what kind of genre you're in or what kind of text you're reading.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , and what we don't want to do today, I don't think, is to give you steps. Here's how to [00:09:00] read the Bible, you know. , but there are some models around that are sometimes quite helpful. , there's the Bible discovery reading. method, which asks certain questions in a certain order, and you can just pull answers out of everyone in the group.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And that's very effective. There's a, , I remember learning one called, I think it was soap. , something about, you know, reading the scripture, getting your observations, doing an application and then prayer or something at the end. So , there's a lot of models out there and we won't necessarily follow one particular one.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , but I'd like to start with the question, what stood out to you guys in reading that? Did anything jump out at you from the pages of scripture that just went, Hey, hang on. That's even if you don't understand it , or it's weird, what jumped out? Okay.
Zanita Fletcher: I kind of chose it because I was just flipping through the Bible and I came across it and [00:10:00] I was like, Oh, this is pretty, like, pretty good size to go through. And I read through it and I was honestly a bit like, I don't know why this is in the Bible.
Zanita Fletcher: , to me, it seems a bit like, surely there was like, there's so many questions that we have about God and about other stories in the Bible. And,, there's that verse at the end of John, the actual book, , that says the Bible can't contain all the things that, that God, that Jesus did.
Zanita Fletcher: And so it's , surely he could have chosen. Something a bit more , I don't know, important, unless I'm missing something. Cause I read this and I was like, it seems a bit like, when people say things like, I know something, but I'm not going to tell you what I know. , like how he ends the thing , by saying, I have much more to say, but I'm not going to put it in ink because maybe because it's private.
Zanita Fletcher: I'm not really sure. , and so I guess that's why I chose this because I feel like there's, I feel like there's other passages in the Bible where you read it and you're like, Why is this in here? What am I supposed to take from this? Which I guess isn't really answering your question, [00:11:00] but I guess I was excited to see what you guys thought about it, , and what stood out to you guys.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Jesse, did you have something that stood out to you? Um,
Jesse Herford: so this letter appears and I, I could be, Kind of off base here, but most of the epistles in the New Testament, uh, addressed often to a specific person, but there's sort of like an understanding of, Hey, we're going to share this with the rest of the church. It seems like this one is a Almost exclusively to this one guy.
Jesse Herford: Gaas, the guy Gaas guy's. The guy. He's the guy, you know? And it, it's like a pri it's almost like a private letter. It's like we're reading somebody's mail. It, at least that's how it feels to me while I'm reading it, which is not something that. I'm used to doing in the New Testament epistles off often, it's like we're reading into the mail directed to a whole community of people.
Jesse Herford: But in this one, it's like we're reading somebody's personal mail. [00:12:00] Okay.
Jarrod Stackelroth: that stuck out to me just As we were reading through that just demanded my attention that maybe I hadn't seen before , or that sort of stopped me. And I, I take the point that, it feels a little bit like voyeuristic almost. Like, Hey, we opened this guy's mail, you know, we're having a read.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , But there are some phrases in there that sort of seem more communal, like he wants to visit, , the team, the church, , the group. , but one, one phrase that stood out to me was. It was for the sake of the name and the name is capitalized in my, Bible. So it seems like who is the name,, what was done for that sake?
Jarrod Stackelroth: You know, what, , it's a, it's a different name, perhaps for God, if it's capitalized, it's for Jesus name or in Jesus name, we often say that in [00:13:00] our prayers and things. So I'd like to unpack that phrase a little, potentially, but that stood out to me. And the other thing was the, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Anyone who does that is from God. I think that's a fairly well known verse. And it's interesting to me, my perception is that I know that verse, but perhaps not very well the content of the rest of the book. And it's almost like we as Christians have grabbed that verse and memorized it, , use it.
Jarrod Stackelroth: learned to quote it regularly, but I've disregarded the whole context of the rest of the book. And so I think it's an interesting exercise to actually dig in a little bit and to find out maybe What context is this being set in? , don't, , imitate, do not imitate what is evil, but do what is good.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , immediately after he throws shade at this guy, Diotrephes, , he's pretty harsh, [00:14:00] which is also interesting. He's pretty harsh on that guy. , that stood out like, Ooh, the Bible, we don't expect it to be, to be like that. ,
Zanita Fletcher: I was just going to say, I guess on talking about, he's kind of setting two different examples, but I like the, , I really like the tone of this letter. Like, I feel like this is like a good guy who's, who's writing it. Like, he's sure he pulls out someone who is maybe not the best example, but.
Zanita Fletcher: , he really does want the best for people. You can tell that in the first line. He's like, I hope all is well with you and that you're healthy. You are as healthy in body as you are strong in spirit. And then he's obviously talking about He's talking about like loving friendship and he's talking about treating people as strangers, like friends, which is like a classic Christian principle about not just loving the people who are your family and your friends, but also loving like the outsiders and the outcast and the sick and so on.
Zanita Fletcher: , And so , I read this and I'm like, I want to be like this guy. Like he obviously, it's what he's saying in the [00:15:00] verses, like, , when someone knows God because of how they treat others kind of thing, which I thought was, yeah, just interesting. Yeah.
Jesse Herford: he opens In my translation, it says, the elder to the beloved Gaius, and he calls Gaius one of his children, and he calls the rest of the church his, like John literally is calling the church his children, which, by the way, It's kind of weird, but , I guess, in the context of like, if you're, if you're the founder, evangelist, , wise father of this collection of house churches, which I think of this as a collection of house churches, not just one, but this is perhaps to a collection of churches and , you see yourself , as a sort of paternal figure as a father, , as you say.
Jesse Herford: Zenita, the love is coming through, , even with the drama in the middle of the [00:16:00] letter there. Okay. Okay.
Jarrod Stackelroth: you've picked up from the passage and from our conversation so far, that stands out to you as suggesting that, this is important., what would stick out to you? I can start while you're thinking about it. , To me, it's interesting that it's to Gaius. , I believe Gaius is a Latin name. So, it's not necessarily a Jewish believer. So I think it's very important to show that even in the early church, it was mainly growing amongst , the [00:17:00] Jews in the diaspora. They were all around Greece and Turkey and Rome and the Mediterranean fringes.
Jarrod Stackelroth: They were,, they were all through there and Christianity spread in that space. , most quickly, but the idea that this letter is to Gaius, my dear friend, as you said, my beloved Gaius, , my child, it shows the acceptance and it's a biblical example to me of the acceptance of the community outside of, you know, the church.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Maybe the traditional chosen people of God. It's starting to see the seeds planted that, Hey, this is for more than just us. This is for everyone to the point where, , John, as the author of this letter calls Gaius, his dear beloved friend, his child,,, includes him in my children. You know, it's great to see my children growing in the truth and he includes Gaius in that.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So,, he could be a. A Jew with a, a Latin name, [00:18:00] but I would suggest, maybe he's not. And so this just shows the opening up of Christianity to become, a religion for all people. , that's exciting. That's interesting.
Zanita Fletcher: A possibility on that. I don't know if this is the same Gaius, but probably a lot of our viewers watch The Chosen and I know that there is a Roman named Gaius in that, which I'm assuming is from a real character in the Bible. Jesse, do you know if that's the same Gaius as this? Because he did,
Jesse Herford: he's probably not the same guy, but , it's possible, I'm not sure. But it's possible that the producers of The Chosen maybe chose that particular name for Gaius because it had some kind of historical link to the early church. It's possible. I don't know if they're setting up this character to become a Roman convert, but I'm not, yeah, it's possible.
Zanita Fletcher: [00:19:00] viewers can Google it and do their research, but I did wonder that.
Jesse Herford: it is a historical example of the early Christian importance that they placed on hospitality. , hospitality seems to be a fairly significant theme in this letter. As, for what it's worth, Second John is as well, and the conflict between Diotrephes and the Elder's recommendation, Demetrius, is the difference between somebody who is open and hospitable to all people and somebody who only chooses to accept certain people based on a sense of authority or Power structure.
Jesse Herford: , so [00:20:00] I think that, potentially that is another reason for its importance because we'd know that hospitality was a huge deal in the early church and it was something that set apart the early church from the rest of their community. It's a
Zanita Fletcher: It's typically when we're in a church, it's like quite easy for us to look to the leaders as to like how we should live, , and I feel like on Record Live we've had this conversation before when we've talked about , Oh, pastors are just normal people.
Zanita Fletcher: Like we need to cover a bit of slack, like also hold them to a standard, but like they're just humans at the end of the day. , and so I feel like this is,, this is towards the end of the Bible and it's well past like Acts and the forming of churches and stuff. So I guess for me, it's like, Oh yeah, who am I looking at for an example, and not to get caught up because I feel like it's very easy to see someone who is in a big role and maybe isn't
Jesse Herford: [00:21:00] Yeah.
Zanita Fletcher: And it's easy to get caught up in that and stuck on that instead of just focusing on ,
Jesse Herford: Yeah.
Zanita Fletcher: models. Like, I feel like that's something that I'm definitely guilty of is getting obsessed with that thing or fixated on the wrong thing instead of what is good.
Jesse Herford: , I definitely see echoes here. I definitely see echoes here. , of, , John's first epistle. So there's echoes of whoever does like to what Jared was saying, whoever does good is from God. Whoever does evil has not seen God. And John talks about that. , I'm just trying to find it here. , First John two verse
Jarrod Stackelroth: of
Jesse Herford: whoever says, I have come to know him, but does not obey his commandments as a liar, such a person, the truth does not exist, but whoever obeys his word truly in this person, the love of God has reached perfection by this.
Jesse Herford: We may be sure that they are in him. Whoever says I abide in him or [00:22:00] to walk just as he walked. So there's a, I guess, echo here of, John's conception of. What a life transformed in Jesus looks like and that can be evidenced by their behavior. , so yeah, I definitely think that's what he's referencing.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It stands out to me that the theme of hospitality, as a broad theme for this book, , John is The love disciple, the beloved disciple, and one of his major themes really is love. Like , he, , emphasizes love in John one. He emphasized love in John two. And here again in John three, , he doesn't say the word love as much, but it's definitely like how you treat others.
Jarrod Stackelroth: His main beef with diatrophy seems to be that , he refuses to welcome the brothers. He stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church. So he's almost got this exclusive,, [00:23:00] mindset,, you have to be worthy. You have to be this and you have to be that you have to be chosen.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Otherwise you don't fit, you don't make it. And. Yeah, Demetrius, he says is well spoken of everyone. He's almost using these two examples of people who it's like, well, if you want to imitate good, here's some actual people who are living in such a way. , And it's interesting, I think this year, Zanita, we've had a, a conversation, I think it was on Record Live about judgment, judging others and setting up like, we're called not to judge in some senses, but we are called to be discerning and , to make some judgments in others.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And it's against God's,, God's standards and God's, , law. And people can very easily get caught up in what they think God's standards are rather than, God's ultimate standard, according to John seems to be how you treat other people. so John is. Really emphasizing this theme. Yes, to this particular [00:24:00] individual, but I guess then we as individuals who are reading his letter, , some 2000 years later, we can look for that same emphasis.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , And it still has, I think, relevance to our world today. , there's so much beef in the world today, the Middle East, Ukraine and Russia, everyone's tilting towards war , and. economic, disagreements and my country is better than your country. We've got to stop trade and we've got to put tariffs on things.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And, , I'm just reading some of the headlines today, , in the American election season. , and again, it's all polarized us against you. And this sort of simple hospitality, this sort of love of others seems to be really lacking in our world. And so to bring it,, that's what it's saying to me today when we read, this, it's a challenge to me.
Jarrod Stackelroth: If John is challenging this house church, this group of Christians to be [00:25:00] more loving, to be good as, goodness and to imitate people who are good rather than doing evil., I guess I can reflect on my own journey and go, am I that person to the community that I find myself in? Silence.
Zanita Fletcher: deal with that on a day to day. Like I don't think I've ever had a teacher knock up on my door and ask for help.
Zanita Fletcher: I think , the idea of caring for people who you don't know. Is something that, like you said, Jared, like our world isn't good at, , I know even when I was coming home from Nepal, I stopped off in Indonesia and I got food poisoning and I was on my own and I was like asking people in my hostel if they could help because I had no energy, like I couldn't even go to the pharmacy to get medication and no one was interested in helping, like everyone just was like, nah, sorry, or walked away or avoided me because they didn't [00:26:00] like, They just didn't want to be put out.
Zanita Fletcher: And so it's like crazy to me. Cause it's, Oh, like you think people care, but a lot of people just don't. , and I had a situation where I was in at the airport and I had someone ask. Me for help. And I also just wanted to be like, sorry. Can't help you. , but like I had just had that experience.
Zanita Fletcher: And so. I, I responded, but . Yeah, I think it was just, it stood out to me because it's like, it's so true that it's so easy to just treat strangers like they're not real people and just walk away and turn around. But that's what he's calling us to do.
Jesse Herford: Okay.
Jarrod Stackelroth: different reflections from each other. There's certainly some take out. points, take home points for [00:27:00] me, , to take home practically, what can I do in my life?
Jarrod Stackelroth: , some of the things that really stand out, , the hospitality thing,
Jesse Herford: is make sure that the
Jarrod Stackelroth: sake of Jesus. with a high degree of honor and respect. , he suggests that, , those for the sake of the name, these people are traveling around and, receiving no help from the pagan.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So we short, , we should show hospitality to such people like church workers, Bible workers, people who are spreading Jesus, , ministry and mission around the world. We should look as the church community to support and to help those people. , These are all very practical things. John's not talking about theological, abstract concepts here.
Jarrod Stackelroth: He's actually giving practical advice on how to treat people, , in this passage, just as we wrap up, what are some tips [00:28:00] we can take into our own devotional and Bible study life? What's one thing that you think you can look at a passage like this and go, actually, I can get something out of this. Where can I start?
Jarrod Stackelroth: , Jesse, we'll start with you. Okay.
Jesse Herford: footnotes that lead to the other thing. And it's not like the internet where you can just click it. You actually have to make the connection. And so making that connection between, third John, first John, for instance, the other thing is, We could have talked about the connection between hospitality, love, and truth.
Jesse Herford: We often think of truth as believing the right stuff, but John actually makes the link here between treating others with love and respect as being evidence of having the truth, which I think is something that most Christians probably [00:29:00] don't really associate, at least not initially. So, what does that look like?
Jesse Herford: So, that's something that for me, I look at and I go, Oh, well, I need to learn more about this. Where can I do that? And the rest of the writings of John is probably a pretty good place to start. , now I've got a jumping off point where I've seen something. I don't fully get my, I haven't got my head around it. I've got a starting point and I think that's, really important. , so now I've got more that I can dig into and I've started that, , process of being equipped to be able to understand it, to think through it, to ponder it. [00:30:00] Okay.
Zanita Fletcher: try to do just, yeah, usually when I open the Bible is I just ask, like, what is this passage? , what does it teach me about God? And what does it teach me about myself or about like how I can live in this world or treat others? So just those two simple questions. And I guess just like looking at the text with those two questions in mind, I often will get out of it and I'll often learn something about God.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, so that's usually how I go about it.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Awesome. And a couple of quick things from me, I think, , at the start, Sanita asked the question or led us to ask the question, why is this included in the Bible? Those sorts of questions, leading questions are really good places to start because then you're looking through a certain lens or you're answering certain questions and you're looking for that.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I'm looking for that theme. And then, as Jesse said, as you read this and you find something that you find interesting, you can pull that thread through the rest of the Bible. Where does this appear? Is this backed up by other writers? And how does that work? And the other thing that's [00:31:00] interesting to look at in, in the Bible is, If we believe it's really, from God and it's really well put together , and the hyperlinks in other books exist.
Jarrod Stackelroth: What about within the text itself? So something that stood out to me that we didn't have time to explore was the structure of this letter. He says, dear friend, three times. And that feels intentional. So what does each of those sections say? How does those sections relate to each other as a structure, , of this letter?
Jarrod Stackelroth: , we didn't have time to unpack it today, but it's a good question. When you're approaching your Bible, what is the structure of this chapter? What is the structure of this whole? Book, what is the structure of the passage? And how does this part that I'm looking at today fit into the context of the rest of that structure, the structure, the genre, as we know, this is a letter.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So we treat it differently to if it was a Psalm or something like that, because it's been written to a specific audience and understanding that audience, , is an important place to jump off from. Did you guys find [00:32:00] this helpful, uplifting, interesting?
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, I really enjoyed hearing what you both had to think about.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And I think,, that, that question goes to our audience as well. If you have comments or you'd like your own, , to share your own thoughts on the third book of John, please contribute those in the chat in, , wherever you can send us a note, send us an email. , we'd love to hear your thoughts and hopefully also.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , this has demonstrated that it doesn't have to be intimidating to get into your Bible. Like we've just picked a passage today. We've gotten something practical and helpful out of it for our lives. And hopefully as we go about our weeks, we can remember to be hospitable and loving to others. And that's a really important message to take with us this week.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Jesse. Zanida, thank you for joining us today. Thank you all those that are watching and listening at another point., we pray for you. We thank you for joining us and may God bless you this week. [00:33:00]