Record Live Podcast

Scroll_ click_ pray_ exploring faith in a digital age
Intro: [00:00:00] Hi there, everyone. I'm Jared. And I'm Zanita. We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church, faith, and living well. We believe as followers of Jesus, faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we put into practice. Let's go live.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And we are back with record live again, Zanita, as always. It is a pleasure to have you.
Zanita Fletcher: Thank you. It's good to hear.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And we're here with Jared Madden. So sorry, Zanita. It's a bit of a Jared sandwich today. We do differentiate the spelling. , Jared and I have worked together for a little while and, , refer to ourselves as Jared squared in the collective.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So, , it's good to have you on Jared as well. [00:01:00] Thank you very much. Good to be here. So Jared is currently working with us at Adventist Media as the marketing and digital director of that department, the manager of that department. , but also has a history in your life, Jared, you've worked with a lot of technology, , emerging technologies, new technologies.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And so we've got a digital discipleship conference coming up, which is. , they are always good value. In my experience, we've had this sort of, history of digital discipleship goes back a few years now in the South Pacific, and they've been very practical. I've found them great networking events to learn, , to meet more people, like minded people who are.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Passionate about seeing the church be in digital spaces, people sharing their faith as individuals in digital spaces and using technology wisely. , so we called today's episode, scroll, click, pray, exploring faith in a digital age. And I think no one would disagree that we [00:02:00] are living in a digital age. , from the time I was a kid to today, things have changed exponentially.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Like we didn't even have smartphones. , when I, when I was born, we didn't probably even have the internet. It might've existed, but it wasn't readily accessible. It wasn't in every home, , and that sort of thing. So we have witnessed in the past few years, some giant changes. And I don't think I'm. Going out on a limb here to say that the church has sometimes struggled to keep up with some of those technological changes, , and that it's probably too simplistic to say that all technology is evil or to say that all technology is good, even, or that all technology is neutral.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I think some is good, some is bad, some is neutral and some. nuance. And so I think that's, some of the topics we're going to [00:03:00] cover today, but Jared tell us a little bit about your experience with technology. Like where did you first get interested in or get involved with this sort of space, this digital, this digital age?
Jarrod Stackelroth: When did it dawn for you?
Jared Madden: Yeah. Um, Probably considerably older than you. So I may have started pre technology , with some of these areas. So my, my introduction into technology is, , I got a traineeship as a graphic designer for a printing company. That that's my background, I'm a graphic.
Jared Madden: designer by trade. And the reason I got the job was because of the transition that was happening in printing from an analog system into the digital system. And they hired me because I knew computers really well and they wanted me. , in the company to start their transition and so I got, I entered this really great phase where I actually learnt the traditional ways of [00:04:00] doing printing and then saw how that transitioned into digital and how even,, the analog terms and ways of doing things morphed themselves into the digital space.
Jared Madden: So , that was my,, origin story. , fast forward like a decade in the early 2000s, , I was very, very involved in what was termed at the time, new media, wasn't even called social media at the time. So I was, consulting companies in this new thing that they didn't understand and consulting them in, , how this was going to change the way.
Jared Madden: They would engage with their clientele, with their staff, how they did business,, , this was all pre YouTube, pre Facebook, et cetera. And, , I guess one of my claim to fames is that I [00:05:00] Australia's first conference on podcasting in the early 2000s, , happened in Perth and, we got together a big group of people and started that conversation of podcasting.
Jared Madden: And here we are, 20 years later podcasting because it's,, this is a really great way to connect, , reach an audience. , and to have conversations with people.
Zanita Fletcher: I love that you've, started with a positive because I feel like. Social media can be pretty all consuming, and I think there's a lot of information and data out there at the moment, or maybe it's come out more so in the last year, that's like exposing and pointing out like the negative realities of it, and I get that, but I guess evidently I'm seeing a lot of people set like stronger boundaries and delete their accounts and just try to get off it basically because They're realizing the dangers.
Zanita Fletcher: But at the same time, when I like, I [00:06:00] feel that struggle of, , feeling the pool, but also feeling like it's a positive thing, because I can see in my own journey that there are people online and there are, like, influencers, I guess you could say, or just individuals who have really influenced my faith and who have really made me think deeper about things.
Zanita Fletcher: And I don't know where I would be in some areas of my life if I didn't have those like individual speak about certain topics. And so while I struggle with it, I also am really grateful for it. , and I think it's, I think That it's not going anywhere. It's one of those things that is going to be around probably forever now. , and so I guess, can you just speak about more of the positives? I'm sure we'll get into some of the other negatives and struggles with it later on in this conversation, but what are some of the other awesome things that you've seen come about? Because of the online world.
Jared Madden: Yeah, , I think an interesting conversation has happened in Australia with the recent bill looking at raising the age of, , children's accessibility [00:07:00] to social media to 16.
Jared Madden: And, as I went around different communities, , of people, , in their early twenties, teenagers, an interesting insight. Which is a positive, I believe, , , for social media, digital connections was the ongoing, , narrative of. These digital technologies enabled me to find my tribe. I would not have found my people who, , support me, who have similar interests to me if it wasn't for these technologies.
Jared Madden: And that is. Good, and it can be negative if you find the wrong tribe, but, , , I think that, , the ability to find like minded people, to have great dialogue, to build community, , And accessibility, again, a lot of these things, accessibility of information is one of those double edged swords again.
Jared Madden: And,, we have a access now to a [00:08:00] wealth of information and with. AI, we now have access to a tool that helps us filter and navigate that information at a way we've never been able to do it before. So positively, it has enabled an enormous amount of, , people to find other people, knowledge.
Jared Madden: Expansion, et cetera. Even down to mundane things like, , I'll give you an example. , uh, e health technology. , you know, my daughter, , we probably wouldn't have found some of her resolutions with health if it wasn't for the digital health systems logging her data and this doctor looking at it and that doctor looking at it.
Jared Madden: , so the ability for her. Yeah. Different people to collaborate through digital platforms is great.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Talking about AI for a moment, it's sort of taken everyone by storm in the last couple of [00:09:00] years. How do you see the interaction between God, the individual and the AI technology? Cause there's debate about, , I'm a writer by craft. And so if I use AI to write my article, is that. leaving less room for the Holy Spirit.
Jarrod Stackelroth: You know, if I prepare a sermon or a devotional using AI,, what are some of the problems , or positives you could see in that? Like, would God want us to use AI or not? Maybe you can't answer that question directly, but I guess these are some of the things we have to think about when we're looking at new technologies entering the scene.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Like how do we ethically use these technologies? And what do we do as Christians? We. the technologies that the world is embracing around us.
Jared Madden: Yeah, , AI is a huge leap forward. It's like AI is going to change our lives, , dramatically. , and if people don't realize that [00:10:00] yet, , they will see it happen.
Jared Madden: Within the next couple of years, , I predict that in two years time, we'll see quite a different world. , when it comes to all sorts of things from how we learn education, it will even impact jobs. , and we may even see a lot of jobs that are multi year, , five year degrees becoming more like trades because I changes the way that that job actually , the way I best, , describe how I see AI, it's like go back quite a few years.
Jared Madden: We had this idea of how microorganisms. And then we invented the microscope and we could see it. And to me, that's kind of like AI. We've got all this information out there, but now we've invented this tool that looks at information in a different way. [00:11:00] And how we conceive of and perceive and engage with the concepts of the micro before the microscope is very different to after the microscope.
Jared Madden: And that's how I see it working here. The way that we look at data, et cetera, , is, is going to change and how we, , the good and the bad part to come back to your point, Jared, you know, you're a writer. is how we use it. So I'll give you an example of how I use it. , when I'm writing is I will just let my mind go and write and write and write and then say, get AI to analyze that , and to, , bring that information back in a coherent matter.
Jared Madden: And then I will reread my own. Thoughts and it's collated it together in a nice coherent way. And then that enables me to go into a second phase of my thinking a lot quicker than if I [00:12:00] was to, , actually try and articulate it very well at first. , so in, in that way, AI can be used as a tool, which helps me understand.
Jared Madden: what I'm thinking better and help me, help drive me , to where I want to go in a more efficient way. Where AI is dangerous, if I can go to the flip side, specifically in things like writing , and looking , at spiritual concepts is mistaking AI to be correct. Because often it is not. And if we're asking AI for answers, then.
Jared Madden: Inevitably in its current form, you will get taken down the wrong path. So AI is inherently somewhere between 60 to 80 percent incorrect. So 60, around 60 percent correct. So it's around 40. 20 to 40 percent incorrect [00:13:00] at the moment. And sometimes it's just blatantly wrong. , and it will make things up to, to, , satisfy the need that you asked it to do.
Jared Madden: , so asking AI for answers, I think is the wrong way to approach , that technology, but asking it to, you know, to bring information to it and ask it to investigate that information. in ways that, uh, time saving is a great use of, of AI.
Zanita Fletcher: I heard there was a, , law court recently of someone who used AI and got information for a client and got sued because, , they hadn't checked.
Zanita Fletcher: So it's good for people to know it's very inaccurate a lot of times. But I think it's also Good to know that it's a tool. , and not just like a robot that's going to take over our lives. But, , I guess I just want to touch on something that I, I've been to digital discipleship the last few years. And, , one thing that I've really liked about it is that it [00:14:00] has opened my mind to like more creative ways to engaging online.
Zanita Fletcher: So I think a lot of people think when we're talking about faith and social media, they just think they have to go on and like share a lot of theological thoughts or have to share their testimony. But there's some really creative things that people have gotten up a digital discipleship and shared. And this isn't, this one in particular isn't, but this is something I've noticed since is there's, , someone that I follow is this guy who.
Zanita Fletcher: He calls himself, Piano and Prayer, and every week he gets online and he plays the piano for ten minutes. And he just tells people to write their prayer request in the comments, and he gets, , hundreds of people just as he's playing the piano, right? Their prayer requests in. And then after he's finished buying, he just like praise for them.
Zanita Fletcher: And it's something that's so simple, like he's not saying anything like he's not, , he's not having to get really personal. He's not having to share some deep, like theological thought. He's just buying the piano and praying. , and so I think, yeah, just give us maybe some things discipleship or something else that you've seen people show up in a way that's like different, that [00:15:00] has.
Zanita Fletcher: , been really like compelling or that is really encouraged people.
Jared Madden: Yeah, I think, I think the mistake a lot of people, , have when it comes to using digital to connect to people , or to share faith is, , to present your theological position. You know, this is what I, I believe is, , is right. That, that can create, , debate.
Jared Madden: , but I think , the ways that people are cutting through and are actually, . Really genuinely connecting with people is in very human ways that build relationship. , and, you know, theology is only part of who we are as humans, , where relationships were where health were where our connection to nature or the built environment and, , having those human moments like, Music and prayer is a really great way to [00:16:00] connect.
Jared Madden: , you know, we're entering a time, this is going to be a really interesting time because if I can predict one thing that AI is going to do is it's going to generate a lot more noise and it's going to generate a lot more. More information and so I've been researching, , for the talk that I'll be doing at digital discipleship about what is the one thing that to, to move forward, with, , , how do we connect with people in an AI?
Jared Madden: Generated world, basically. And so I'm bringing some, you know, spiritual biblical aspects to that. , and I'll be presenting to that , on the Friday night of the conference. But,, at the end of the day, authentic connections with people, , in authentic ways are going to continue. Cut through examples of that.
Jared Madden: Um, I think your example [00:17:00] is brilliant. I think, , you look at someone like Sandra and men who each Friday night gets online and sings and connects to people, , in in a way that I can't do because that's not something I can do. Get online and sing. But, , yeah, I think moving forward. Also, We're going to be finding that the way that we do evangelism will change.
Jared Madden: And I think what Sandra does is evangelism, and it's what I would call, she's building a micro community. So, , finding that niche thing that, that is important to you as a human and connecting to other people through that and building a relationship. , through digital technologies, , , I, I absolutely love this, the quote by Ellen White, which talks about Jesus method alone works.
Jared Madden: And this is so important for, [00:18:00] digital discipleship is, , he dwelt with people as one who wanted their good and he ministered to their needs and he gained their trust. And, , that to me is the playbook for. , if you want to share , your faith is you're in the places where people are digitally, , minister to their needs, and gain their trust.
Jared Madden: And that is. 90 percent of it.
Jarrod Stackelroth: We've, I guess, reflected a little bit on what an individual maybe might do engaging in their own life,, using chat GPT or AI, or what about a local church? What would you say? Should be the kind of digital, maybe not the whole strategy for a local church, but what would be the philosophy that a local church should adopt?
Jarrod Stackelroth: You know, many of the people that will watch or listen to this will be part of local congregations. , their churches might be a bit behind on some of this stuff. They might not have a social media presence [00:19:00] or, and that might be the simplest thing, but like, is it just about often when churches say they're trying to modernize or they're trying to get up with technology, they start a live stream.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Right? So all they're doing is Hey, we're broadcasting our sermons to the world. Do you think, what do you think is the first thing a local church should think about , in terms of some of this stuff? What can they offer in the technology or digital space?
Jared Madden: , I think first of all, , they need to have a look at themselves and ask the question, how are we going to build a micro community and go wide, you know, global.
Jared Madden: You know, Australia and actually build a, you know, have a look at our membership and, and say, what skills, what can we provide to people and actually build there and go wide, or do we actually use technology to engage our local community to, bring people in. [00:20:00] So for instance, you know, , it is technology.
Jared Madden: It is digital. A lot of people probably won't think about it, but there are a lot of people probably in your community, specifically if you've got retirement age, who would be hard of hearing. So,, you work with someone like Christian services for the blind and hearing impaired, and they can help your church bring it.
Jared Madden: Digital equipment in so that the local community can come to your location and hear what's going on. That's a very practical application. Not only can that, help when people come christian services for the blind hearing impaired. Can actually market to your community and go, Hey, there's a desk.
Jared Madden: There's a location that actually serves your needs because they've put this digital equipment in. So, you know, that's a practical application. , but once again, I think the core of any ministry is authenticity and you need to find [00:21:00] what is your authentic, authentic voice, what is your authentic message within your congregation?
Jared Madden: , and build around that. , I know of a church who again, this is technology, , who actually has a ministry where they build drones , and, , engage with drone racing with the local youth. , and that's, , that's one aspect of digital. And then, you've got other people , who do really well with the live streaming, , music online.
Jared Madden: etc.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, I think there's so many things that people can do in their community. And sometimes that looks like flying drones. I think it's, , I think it's interesting as well, speaking about the church, like statistically, we know in the church that the people who leave the church, the biggest age group of people is from like 18 to 35.
Zanita Fletcher: So it's , your young people. But I think it's kind of interesting because the younger you are typically, the more I could be wrong in this, but typically the more. , open you are to things. Like people are often like more fluid and are still making [00:22:00] up their minds about things and thinking about things when they're in that age.
Zanita Fletcher: And if you look at people who are online the most, it's that age group as well. So it's like, it's the 18 to 35s who are really in that generation who are like addicted and who are very open and yeah, it's not really a question, it's just a comment about like, it's the same age that's missing, but it's also the same age that's seeking the most online.
Jared Madden: Well, just on that, I actually think that the Adventist church has something to really give the increasingly digital, digitally saturated world with all the noise that's going to amplify and amplify year on year. And, there's, a new discipline coming out, which interestingly is called digital psychology, and as the younger generations who are digitally native are growing up.
Jared Madden: They have a different skill. So they have different things that they are good at and not good at , as those who were not grown up with [00:23:00] digital technology and an area where they're actually not good at is unplugging, , resting, , and actually,, reassessing, ideas. Outside of the matrix, if I can put it that way, and, one of the things I think we need to have a debate about as an organization is we love our technology.
Jared Madden: We love developing technology, and I'm sitting with my team and going, Hey, let's make this app to really make. the church service interactive and people can do this and that in the church. And, and then there's another part of me that goes, well, hang on, maybe the Sabbath is actually about disconnecting and being with people and touching a paper Bible and leafing through that and having that tactile experience, , which is closer to nature and actually talking to real people around you.
Jared Madden: , and, you know, I've written to two articles for the record in my life, [00:24:00] and both of them were about having a digital sabbatical, and increasingly, I think that this is something that is, , something we can bring to the community as a way of dealing with.
Jarrod Stackelroth: We've got a question that's come in, Gerard, and I think it's a good one, sort of on, on, on topic, what we're talking about, what strategy can we use to convince our young people to engage on platforms, positively sharing their faith? Because most often they missed missing out on this. , I think that goes to,, the missional element as an individual , and perhaps, , encouraging people to see the digital space as a mission field.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And , how do we encourage them or how do we empower them? Adventist Media did some years ago a study on, , sharing your faith and people were keen to share their faith. But didn't know how, didn't know where to [00:25:00] start, didn't, were afraid maybe, , of rejection or there was a bunch of reasons and challenges that were identified for that.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It was interesting, , point of reflection for us today.
Jared Madden: Yeah, the, around the mid 2000s, as new media was turning into social media, some research was done and whenever I'm at youth events and I'm speaking or doing training sessions, I bring up What is called the 1 percent rule and the research at the time said that the 1 percent of people who create the content that other people engage with get 90 percent of the opportunities.
Jared Madden: That's that's a huge, difference when you look at the numbers and to drill into this a bit deeper to answer the question. is if you want your young people to be engaging digitally in evangelism, get them [00:26:00] to be creating content for other people , on topics, , and presented online through blogs, through videos, through, presenting their faith.
Jared Madden: And most importantly, the most important, thing that you can ever do is your testimony. , testimonies are powerful, , human stories with the kingdom message , is one of the things that I think have the most powerful, way to cut through the noise and to connect with somebody else. So,.
Jared Madden: Get your youth being the 1%. It's statistically around 4 percent now as more people create content, actually creating content that is designed for other people to, , have a look at their faith, have a look at their story, et cetera, get
Jarrod Stackelroth: them right. Stealing some of our, stealing some of our thunder for digital discipleship conference.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Well, I am. Yes. Yes. [00:27:00] Which is coming
Jared Madden: up soon. But, you know, there's, there's, I'm actually really excited about digital discipleship. We've got people attending from the U. S., , from out of the division. , from Southeast Asia, Indonesia is sending a whole heap of pastors down to, to be trained in digital discipleship.
Jared Madden: , I'm really looking forward to engaging with the people there. We've got some really good sessions and I'm still researching my topic on the number one thing going forward into the AI age that people need to know for digital discipleship.
Zanita Fletcher: Nice, well I'm excited to hear your presentation. , it's been really awesome having you on today for people who have just jumped on.
Zanita Fletcher: to this conversation. Can you just give us a quick recap of when this is happening and yeah, what it is. I know I've got the link, but yeah. ,
Jared Madden: it's happening , next month in March on the 14th. , you can go it's 14th to the 16th. So it's a Friday, Saturday, Sunday. , we've got speakers, we've got, training sessions.
Jared Madden: We've actually got [00:28:00] the Adventist Media crew setting up, , to do training on how to film., people's testimonies and, , that'll be a really good hands on. We've got a room separate for them to so people could go in and do training sessions with that. , yeah, 40 to the 16th of March.
Zanita Fletcher: Awesome. Cool.
Zanita Fletcher: Great. Thanks so much, Jared. , I think we're all going to be there. So if anyone would like to come along, , it's an awesome time. I've been there the last few years and so was Jared Stack here. But, , yeah, thanks for coming on the show today.
Jared Madden: Thank you. Thanks, Jared.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Jared squared. , , we did something new at record this week.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Zanita speaking of technology, we started a WhatsApp broadcast channel. So we know that a lot of our Pacific Island people, speaking of being in digital spaces where people are, we know a lot of you in the Pacific are using WhatsApp frequently. So we started a WhatsApp channel and we'd love you to find and follow Adventist record to get all your daily updates, to get your [00:29:00] news and.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , some views and , all things, , Adventist church in the South Pacific. So that's a, another good platform that you can follow to stay in touch until next week. God bless and have a great time. We'll see you then.