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 Hi there, everyone. I'm Jarrod. And I'm Zanita. We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church, faith, and living well. We believe as

followers of Jesus, faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we put into practice.

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 Welcome back, everybody. We're here at the Ellen White Symposium, and I've gathered this group of fantastic looking young people to talk about the relevance of Ellen White to young people in the church. Now, many people growing up in the church have heard a lot about Ellen White. But not all of us are reading and engaging with her.

So we've just heard a fantastic presentation by Dr. Chantelle Klingbeil about the relevance of Ellen White and why she still remains relevant. But we thought we'd gather some young people together to find out a little bit more about what they think. What are they feeling? What are they experiencing when it comes to LMY?

So, I'll introduce the panel. We've got Megan, who is a psychology student. Zoe, who is an education student. And Zoe and Megan work at the Adventist Heritage, which is in our South Pacific division, the organisation that looks after the archiving, the history of the church, and also Sunnyside, which is Ellen White's home that she stayed at while she lived in Australia.

So welcome guys, it's great to have you. , on my To our left, we have Olivia, who is a law and psychology student, because one degree is never enough. Never. And you're also working part time at Adventist Media, so you've got a very busy schedule, but we're very glad you could join us today. Thank you. And Daniel, Daniel Kuberek.

My friend from Adelaide, South Australia, best place in the world, just a plug., you are a journalist by training and also a filmmaker, so we have a variety of experiences on the panel and we're so glad to have you guys on today. , in Chantelle's presentation, she made this statement. She said that Ellen White, when you read her writings, it encourages you to enthusiasm.

Gives you enthusiasm. Has that been your experience? I might start with Megan and Zoe, if we can. Has that been your experience with Ellen White's writings? Do you think that's an accurate statement?

I'm no expert on Ellen White's writings, but, I engage with her writings pretty much daily, slowly working through the set of four, like her main set.

, and at the moment working through patriarchs and prophets, I find that it does give me enthusiasm. Because,, the world is so busy and your brain gets caught up in just the cares of life and university and everything. But this is a time where I'm forced to stop,, and I'm forced to actually think about spiritual concepts and about the Bible and about, , just Adventist concepts in like itself.

And I find that forced reflection does give me that boost of enthusiasm because you know, it's actively on my mind. I'm thinking about,, things to look forward to. The amazing things ahead, like the second coming, et cetera, all things to get enthusiastic about.

Can you tell me a little bit about How it inspires you, like, does it inspire you to action? Is it just like, she feels very energetic when she writes, and so you take that energy on? , what's the process that that enthusiasm is transferred?

I think you do actually take on, you know, the enthusiasm of whoever's...

It's infectious. And just the passion with which she talks about the Bible and the different people within it kind of does give you that enthusiasm boost. But I think that it does. Galvanise you to action. First through reflection, she poses some very hard questions and makes you look at,, yourself and the way that you're going about things.

Oftentimes,, not perfectly. So looking through that for that reflection and then through that heading towards action with changing that or getting a new perspective on things.

Might start from this side now with just. It might be good to establish what's your perception of Ellen White, like, if you've grown up in the church, if you haven't, like, again, what was your first perception of Ellen White when you first encountered her, Daniel?

Well, I'd say, first perception would be, wow, this is so cool, we're so unique in this sense, there's so many unique things about Ellen White, the fact that, , she was a female, the fact that she was receiving visions directly from God, the fact that, A lot of her writings corroborated what's in the Bible, added to it in some cases, gave us further clarity.

So in terms of perception, growing up, I never heard anything negative said about Ellen White. It wasn't, it was something that we should be, we were proud of., it's only that I encountered anything to the contrary, later on. But yeah, I think it, it's. It's very cool, like, I mean, we, some of my early memories was, you know, our family sitting down almost every night, spending family time reading Great Controversy, and it, yeah, there was a lot of cool stuff that came out of that.

Olivia?

Ooh, I think my, one of my earliest memories of Ellen White was a little bit sceptical. I was, I think, probably 10 or 11 when I first learned that she was part of Adventism. And I found out that she'd been hit in the head, so I became very sceptical of like, Oh, is she just like, having these visions, but they're just concussions and she can't actually, she's not actually really there.

But, I listened to this pastor talking through it at our church and he explained according to the Bible all of these principles of what a prophet is and how you can tell whether a prophet is real or not. And he then examined Ellen White's life and her writings and how Ellen White herself would always say, go to the Bible first.

I'm just giving these like ideas as like,, an addition to the Bible but always go to the Bible first. And so I then grew up with This idea of Ellen White being a very wise mentor in terms of scripture.

Well, I grew up not really liking Ellen, which is sometimes a very controversial statement to say.

But I've been an Adventist my whole life. I've grown up Adventist. I'm like third, fourth generation. And, unfortunately, I just felt very disconnected from her., I didn't like her., I thought she was quite cold and... And, I heard a lot of pastors talking about her and using her words as a way to,, deter behaviour.

And it wasn't until I started working at Adventist Heritage that I learnt a lot more of her, of her works written and just helping the community that I started to become more connected to her. And that she was a pretty cool lady. So,

yeah. Yeah. Well, growing up in the same town, I had much the same experience, because if your pastor was saying it, mine was too.

And, I think my very earliest memories of Ellen White were being a kid at church, climbing trees, going wild between Sabbath school and church, and having, some adults and older folk going, stop,, you can't do that. And invoking the name of Ellen White to... Deter behavior or to tell people off and, you're a kid.

You don't know who Ellen White is This is some abstract concept this person but then growing up kind of hearing more about her in school and pathfinders as you go through , she stopped being an abstract concept and started becoming like an actual human being And I think that's when the experience changed for me as well

What's your experience and anyone can answer this question in terms of?

young people today, , do they care? Are they reading Ellen White? If they're not, why not? If they are, how did they use it? Because, you know, similar to some of you guys have mentioned,, in my upbringing, Ellen White was often quoted or referenced or, but not really explained. There was a lot of, people around who would try and use her to enforce, Ellen White said this, Ellen White said that, but not necessarily , in a way that You know, I feel like maybe there was a generation that rejected the strictness of their parents and perhaps we're the generation under that.

So, our parents sort of went, oh, let's not go as crazy or as hard on Ellen White. And then we just didn't have it. There's almost a bit of more of an absence. I don't know if any of you resonate with that experience, but what then, do you think young people in general are experiencing of Ellen White these days?

Okay, so I've done a lot of reading and discussions with my friends about this topic to try and wrap my head around it. And what Dr. Chantel, , raises, like, in the beginning of her presentation is a great hypothesis, which is that,, young people don't see the relevancy in Ellen White anymore. But I do want to add to that, so there, there's an, there was a study, on this particular issue, starting in 1980,, commissioned by Andrews University, which asked, Who reads Ellen White?

And they had thousands of people responding. And, according to the survey, those who didn't read outranked those who did read 2 to 1. So that's a lot of people within the church who don't want to read. And that's in 1980, which is the time before the internet, before the mainstream internet. So you can imagine that those numbers have been compounded.

There's actually been a few studies done by Avondale University. Already still like 15 years ago, where you see that becoming worse. Now, the question of like relevancy is an interesting one, but I would also posit that,, young people in particular want to invest time into things that they know are meaningful, and things that , they know what they're getting themselves into.

So screen time is a big problem with modern generations, right? So. Going around to all my friends trying to discover why they wouldn't read Ellen White or why they were skeptical about Ellen White , a lot of them would struggle to find time to even read the Bible and this is regular churchgoing people So like to have supplementary material to get around to that It would require a very compelling There needs to be a very compelling reason for that to happen And then I think once you also layer into that A lack of understanding about how to read Ellen White and most people would just not bother going there And I think it's not young people Disapprove of Ellen White and her writings or that young people I don't know.

Disagree with the stuff that she said or believe in the, in claims of plagiarism and some other stuff that she said. I think it's just that they don't know how to approach it. What's the, what's like the hermeneutic? What's the, how do you read Ellen White? What stuff was inspired? What stuff wasn't inspired?

What stuff should we take literally? What stuff should we take as... I guess good life advice and when you don't have clear answers or a clear mindset to walk into that with, it can be very challenging. For me personally, I think what changes a lot of things was listening to lectures by Dr. John Skryzpazek and where he talks about the spiritual journey.

That is when I started to understand Ellen White and it was different to the way that I'd thought about her previously.

Does anyone else want to add to that?

Well, I think, a lot of the people who I've grown up with and gone to church with over the years, they have very mixed views towards Ellen White, mostly based on their upgrowing, sorry, their childhood experiences and how they grew up.

And I found a lot of the time that those who have had really positive experiences with Ellen White in their childhood,, for example, you mentioned your family time, that was a really positive experience talking about. The Great Controversy, like those sorts of cherishing experiences have led a lot of my friends to Actually,, have more respect and interest in Ellen White.

Whereas people, , other friends of mine who,, grew up with a more oh, Ellen White says we can't do this, can't swim on Sabbath or, all of these other rules. They're less inclined and they're like, I don't have time for Ellen White. I'd rather, read the Bible or I'd rather get ahead on my studies or whatever it is else in life.

Because Ellen White just doesn't seem to be that core component of... How they live their lives. It just doesn't occur to them like, Oh, some of the stuff that she says is relevant because it's always been in a context where it's not relevant to how they live their lives. Talking about climbing trees or swimming.

It's not relevant. So

I just want to add to that as well. Like, When I've also been talking to my friends, I've talked to some friends who probably didn't grow up with Ellen White as much, but got into it later on. And I was like, really interested to know what they thought. And their general consensus was like, we love what she writes.

It's super practical, there's a lot of good stuff in there. So, it makes you think, because it's not That's not , the perception that a lot of people would have heading into reading her writings. And I think that's, that in itself needs to be analysed a little bit.

In the presentation,, Dr Chantel went through, I guess, reasons why Ellen White is still relevant for today.

So she mentioned a number of things. One of the early ones that she mentioned is this great controversy thing. It's a big contribution that Ellen White made, this lens, this worldview that we, as Adventists, see the world through. What relevance, or not relevance, we've used that word too much, how does it, how do you relate to the Great Controversy theme in your, in your life?

Like, does it... influence the way you see the world? There's a lot of conflict in the world at the moment, , we know there's a number of war zones that are expanding and blowing up. How does the Great Controversy theme, influence the way you experience life? Is that one of the relevant contributions that Ellen White can continue to make to us as Adventists?

I'll have, kind of, the story kind of leans into that for me. My first ever day of teaching, I walked into a school, , I didn't really know much about the school's religious background, but it definitely wasn't Adventist, and I watched their Bible class, and I noticed something very interesting about the Bible class.

They were studying a story in which the devil plays a big part in the events, manipulating things behind the scenes. But not once was he ever brought up, and I was very confused. My supervisor teacher was an Adventist, and she said, Oh, that's because they don't believe in the devil. Like, at all.

Like, the devil doesn't exist, and I was like, what? And it, like, my, my

whole world view is like, what do you mean? Like, how can you not believe in the devil? And

suddenly, it made me realise this whole, like, devil, god, you know, great controversy, behind the scenes spiritual warfare, it's so ingrained in the Adventist, way of life that we just don't question it.

It just is. And so to hear that other people do is so shocking to me. It did not make sense. And I guess that's because from our perspective, that's how we make sense of the world, is seeing all these terrible events happening, but not, reducing how terrible they are, but saying, well, You know, we know what's behind it and it's sin and it's the devil wanting misery to be part of our everyday experience.

And I think for me that just brings color to everything going around us and

relevance. Is it a positive thing or is it a problematic thing? Cause a lot of people use this as. It's a fearful thing,, we hear about, people having fear of the end times, , giving them anxiety or,, the struggle with the theme.

So how does this theme, how can it impact us in a positive way as Adventists in the way we see the world? Because it has been misused, I should say, it's been twisted and corrupted in, in that sense. Do you have any ideas on how we could view, , Or have you grappled with how is this a positive thing?

Cause I think you're right. It imbues our worldview. It's almost just running through our DNA. Are the letters GC great controversy. It's in there. Whether we've read the great controversy or not, whether we're. very cognizant of what's in the book or not. It's part of us. So how is it a positive thing?

I think a way to view it in a very positive way is to, like you said, like look at how the devil and how God plays a part in events that happen in your life. And so if you're grappling with something, for example, the loss of a loved one or something that's really hard and it makes you want to go, Why is this happening?

Having this idea of the great controversy that there is good and there is bad, and they're both battling for your allegiance. It kind of gives you this peace of knowing like, okay, so these bad things that have happened... It's all part of this dynamic in the world of trying to either make me doubt God or, , pursue other paths of life.

And so I think having the great controversy can actually be a great assurance in times of trouble whether you're, in war like we're seeing at the moment. It can just give you a lot of peace in knowing, like, Oh, God is sovereign over all. He's in control and He's already defeated evil. And I think that's what people can sometimes forget about when, this fear of the end times comes up.

God's already defeated evil. He's already conquered. And sometimes that can be lost in translation.

There's an interesting point that you raised there, which is that Ellen White is very closely tied to this Adventist understanding of mission, or why we're here, or what there is going forward. And that's very good and very important, but then that's where the concern starts to come in when we don't understand Ellen White, and we don't want to read her writings.

Because then what happens next? What happens to... Seventh Day Adventism as a movement, where it came from this foundation of Ellen White's visions and a lot of Ellen White's writings, what happens next, and also if we want to bring about a better understanding of Ellen White, because you have to understand Ellen White before you can read her writings, at least some sort of foundational level, how do we bring about a change where people Will be feeling inspired to read her writings.

What will it take for that to happen? And I guess that's an open ended question. Maybe you guys might have some ideas. I'm not trying to take over Jared. Are you all right?

Yeah, well if I can play devil's advocate for just a second Are we just adding complications on spiritual life? We've heard of the busyness of young people it's hard already to read the Bible to get engaged to be on mission is Ellen White just Extracurricular like we're burdening ourselves with heavy burdens.

Do you think what benefit? Does a young person these days have to read Ellen? What Megan any thoughts?

Benefits, I mean a lot of hope Writings are really important, like the Great Controversy, The Zari of Ages, , you kind of start to learn a bit more of how the world works, a bit how the Bible is in Jesus and everything, and you learn a lot about health and education, which might not seem that important or interesting to some young people, um, but you can learn a lot about the morals from her writings, um, but as Daniel said, is Daniel.

I want to make sure as you said of like how we can make like people more influenced to Read her writings I think people need to stop this disconnect between her and actually start to value her and see her as a person Because I feel like in Seventh day Adventism We've kind of put her onto this pedestal and made her like this mythological person.

Whereas I feel like if we can Kind of humanize her and make her seem just like this Actual person who lived a hundred years ago and see her in an everyday light We might be more able to actually engage with her writings, I think

One of the things that I found interesting in Chantal's presentation was the idea of autonomy free will that sort of runs through the great controversy in some ways the character of God but in the sense of Ellen White's So she was anti, , the two mentioned that stood out to me, anti slavery and anti alcohol.

But not for the reasons like that would be the common arguments trotted out against those things, but because of the inability for someone in slavery, for example, to truly choose to follow God. Mm hm. The, the influence of alcohol to corrupt the way that you're able to truly follow God. So I found that a really interesting concept.

Should we be more advocates for some of these social things that are happening around us? Um, if we're to take Ellen White seriously, she was already modeling that for us. So how should we relate to some of those, um, topics?

Sorry, can I jump in here again? So I guess one of those sub topics is like the health message.

Health message is great because, We, we had this for quite some time now, and everybody else, generally the world, is starting to catch up. , things like a plant based diet is all of a sudden now super popular, and kind of Ellen White advocated for that. All

over Netflix, the news documentary. Yeah,

that's right, the Blue Zone documentary.

, so like, yeah, like some of those things have been around for some time, and yet, like how do we... How do we advertise those messages, how do we draw people into that is say like a plant based diet, like a militant thing that you have to abide by, or is it portrayed as something that, is great for you, you're encouraged to take on this new practice, like , it's a little bit sad, but, I went plant based, , a few years ago, But it wasn't because of Ellen White.

It was because I watched The Game Changers, right? And you and I were in Brisbane meeting up with a friend, and I shared this with them, and he found it hilarious that I became plant based because of a Netflix doco and not Ellen White. Rather than what we've had all along. Yeah, exactly. Which, yeah, was a thought provoking comment that has just stuck with me.

But, yeah, , the core theme was,, like, how do we, just going back to some of those thoughts that you had about, some of Ellen White's messages of encouragement, and how they have been sort of distributed in the past, , what, how do we do that, how do we take that forward? How do we portray that to the next generation?

I think another important part of how she, like, You know, portrayed her messages was she looked at the needs of the people around her. And that was very fundamental to her writings and her ministry. Like she, when she came to Australia, she saw poor people everywhere and she just started helping, you know, got in the ground planting to help.

And I think that's what the core of ministry is all about. And we can sometimes forget to look at the needs of people. And I think that's why Ellen White was such an important advocate for people's rights. , in terms of slavery and votes and, all this sorts of stuff. , that's what the gospel is about.

It's about,, Showing that God loves you through caring for other people, and we should be doing that too. And I think that's why she was such a good advocate, and we should,, follow along.

She practiced what she preached. She didn't just write it, she did it. We heard the bicycle story, obviously, she, and it's trotted out all the time as an argument against Ellen White.

Oh, well, she... Didn't like bicycles and then pro Ellen White people say yeah But it was a specific context like and to learn more about that context is fascinating, you know She actually wanted money to help And yet people were spending all their money on bicycles. Would she be anti bicycles today?

Well, bicycles are cheap today, and it's not an issue that we're all spending thousands of dollars, weeks or months worth of wages on this sort of thing. So I think that's... Again, , it goes back to Daniel's point about reading Ellen White, if we understand how to read her, we're gonna not fall into some of the traps of reading her inappropriately or taking what she's said out of context and actually using it as a hammer to smash people

over the head with.

So like, another one of those kind of examples is, and like this is personal because I'm a filmmaker, but was like the concept of cinema. Now like, I guess a fairly literal reading of some stuff she said would suggest that we shouldn't be going to the cinema because of, I think she, she warned against theatre and stuff like that.

But then like, when you... Read into what theater was like in the time that she lived in and it was highly immoral So was it a there was highly immoral plays being put on or whatever? So the question is was she criticizing? Theater or cinema or was she criticizing? An aspect of that or like the thing that it stood for at the time Because stories have been shared for millennia in different forms whether that be books Whether that be motion picture all those sorts of things So that's the difference that reading into it can make, but also when you think about how many books she's written and then the amount of research you'd have to do into the context and it can seem quite intimidating.

I think there's also a feeling from people that

You know, like I have to take every single thing She said literally and I have to apply every little thing to me. Well, it's not the case because Yes, a lot of her advice does keep going and it is still relevant But some things are just a product of her context.

This is the 1800s in the early 1900s, things were different And so I think you have to be able to read her with your glasses on and to be able to see, yeah, what parts are relevant. Most of it is, but every now and then there is something which is going to be, not quite right for our context because of the changes in our world.

And you have to be able to reconcile, I think, well, If this doesn't quite fit with what we do now, what elements of it still do or how do you sit with that? You need that, I think needs to be a personal thing that you go through and reconcile

yourself. I guess, but that's where the challenge comes because what you're both saying is coming through a lens of a certain way of interpreting Ellen White.

And not everyone, we have to acknowledge, not everyone in our community interprets Ellen White in that. way. They say, , the Bible said it, I believe it, let's do it. And they say that about Ellen White too, essentially, they bring that into Ellen White. So, there's a, almost a polarization that comes around methods of reading Ellen White and understanding Ellen White, which I think Daniel touched on earlier.

And so I guess in this context, in this conversation, we're mostly going to come from a context of Ellen White was A human person who wrote well, wrote extensively, some stuff was, that's where you get into the weeds. Was some stuff more inspired than others? Was the stuff she saw in visions, legit, but the stuff she made as suggestions in letters and things, not as...

So I guess that's some of the difficulty that the church is wrestling with. And for us, we're not here to answer that question. The beautiful people that have gone before us in the symposium have tackled some of those ideas last year. If you want to go back and watch any of those sessions, , some of these ideas were grappled with.

And I'm thankful for the work of the Yale and White Estate and some of our, Scholars , who wrestle with these ways of interpretation. I guess we're all coming from a sense that what she said was great in principle, we respect Ellen White, but it's not necessarily to be held up against the Bible or to have the same, authority in that sense.

But it is very important. So I guess that's, It's good to make clear, make sure we're all on the same page. I know not everyone watching this might feel that same way, and it's up to all of us to wrestle with how some of this applies to our faith. My experience, similar to Daniel's, I'm a writer for the church, an editor.

A lot of my skill, my passion would come from potentially reading fiction and non fiction. I know she said things about fiction. My wife is not of the same ethnicity as me. Something else she wrote about. So I've had to wrestle, I've had to read what she said, try and understand it, see is it a principle thing, or is it a statement that can't be changed, you know?

How does this relate to my life? , and so we have to acknowledge that it's not always easy. There's some issues, some grey areas that we have to work through. Looking at... Some of the challenges then with Ellen White, some of you have had changed perceptions of Ellen White, I'll say. Can you share some of those experiences?

What has changed your mind on Ellen White, or what has helped you perhaps engage with her differently , or see her differently? Can you see any common themes, in some of our experiences in wrestling with Ellen White?

Well, I read, a really good book about Ellen White. , it was called Stories of Sunnyside.

, and it was more a bit of like an autobiography kind of thing,, about Ellen White in Australia. And I learnt more about what she did. Mm hm. You know, how she was, how she just helped everyone and just constantly gave everything. You know, she really just showed these Christ like values. And, for me, that really helped.

in kind of understanding and coming to appreciate more. So, yeah.

Zoe?

Yeah, look, my perception of Ellen White didn't change for a long time because, I don't know if this was an isolated experience, you guys might have had a different experience, but even though I grew up in a highly Adventist community and went to an Adventist school and now an Adventist university, no one talked about Ellen White.

Ever. Hmm. I, my entire time at school, I cannot think of one time where Ellen White was brought up. In the classroom, at chapel, anywhere. So there was no one to change my perspective about Ellen. And so one of the things I'm now passionate about at the Heritage Centre, in getting to engage with young people, in schools and through Sunnyside, is actually Putting the message out there about who she was so that other people who just don't know Can have a positive perspective given and so a lot of it was Me having to choose to read her books and find out myself Through that but also I was lucky enough to have a very passionate Bible studies teacher once I hit later high school who shared some of the more positive aspects with me But yeah, I'm not sure maybe your experience was different.

I think our generation really engages with things where we Feel understood, right? Okay, and you see in let's say advertising brands Will be almost a little bit self referential and a bit cheeky in, like, how they portray themselves. And that really connects well with young people.

And I'm not saying that this is, should be the case in this subject. However, I think when it comes to the issues that we've kind of talked about, about why people, young people, would struggle to engage with Ellen White, I think maybe that needs to be acknowledged. as a lead in to those core things that we need, we know need to happen.

Like, , how do we read Ellen White? Why should we read Ellen White? So, acknowledging the problem first before creating a pathway into the next steps, encouraging people to read Ellen White. Now, you look at what do young people engage with and what's an easy form of content. For them to engage with and there's multiple platforms out there,, video mediums are you know The ones to go to tick tock and stuff.

I would love if as a church we invested into something like this You know in the future at some point That would be very nice. And I think a lot of our friends and peers would find that very helpful.

Just before you go Olivia, you're stealing my thunder a little bit because we're gonna get to what we can do about it.

I'd like to, I'd like to finish in that space. How can we practically actually... Do something. What are we doing at the moment? But just back to the experience, you know, Chantal was saying if Ellen White was around today, how would she engage? What would she be doing? She'd be on YouTube That was what I Thought I got out of the presentation Ellen White would be speaking she used the mediums and the methods that were available to her and I think what you're saying is We're not contextualizing this conversation for young people.

We're not training them, understanding how this works. And we're not going to the platforms and the methods. I mean, Ellen White is available digitally now. She's, online. You can get all of her works. You can just search and you'll find what she said about any particular thing. But that... Doesn't address the problem that you've been talking about Daniel that we don't necessarily know how to use and interpret and apply The writings when we find them Olivia just back to your did your perception change of Ellen White at all and and how did that happen?

It was definitely enhanced quite a lot You know throughout primary to high school. Nothing really changed. I was like, oh, yeah, okay We have a prophet You know not thinking too much about it until in year 10 we had a bible assignment year 9 or year 10 and We were studying like the reformation and our teacher actually got us to read the whole great controversy Abridged, kid version.

And I was a book reader, love reading. And so I took on the challenge, I was like, yeah, I'm gonna read this book. I got all the way through it and I was amazed by just the complexity but also the simplicity of her writings and the truth that I didn't know about until then about the church and our faith.

And so My understanding of Ellen like really grew from that time on when I had a lot more respect for her because , she'd come out of the reformation her and the early church And so she had this energy this enthusiasm to share the truth And so her writings were always aimed at expanding mission and growing faith in that way, which I have experienced Since, that time.

And I think it's something that young people, especially this generation seems to be very engaged with changing their world. Like going out, doing mission trips, being active,, and putting, not just talking about their theory of belief and mission and church, but actually doing it. And it's interesting that perhaps because we don't read as much anymore or for what's happened in the past to influence us about Ellen White, we're not actually.

This generation isn't actually reading and engaging as much as they could be and yet that generation was very much Pushing mission, you know when Ellen White was young and her contemporaries were young they were starting the church. They were advocating for temperance and Slavery and all of these things they were out there changing the world and there's an opportunity perhaps to engage with young people , in that space, but as we finish, with some of the learnings that we've heard from our personal experiences, our stories, we'll go to all of you.

What's something that you think, , on a practical note can help younger people or you would like to see for younger people made available?, how can we do it? For myself, I'll start so you guys can have some thinking time. I don't know if I can classify myself as a young person, but I'm a fairly young parent.

I've got very young kids. Daniel's comments at the beginning about the family worship, the how did they incorporate LMY and that sort of thing. I haven't thought about incorporating LMY at all and my kids are probably way too young to do that, but it's got me thinking. My relationship with LMY. It's going to be somewhat my kid's relationship with Ellen White.

I'll pass that influence on. So, if I think Ellen White's important, how can I practically model that? In my home, so that my kids don't grow up with a negative aspect or anything else. Floor's yours guys., what can we do practically? Where do we start? What are some things? Give us one, maybe one each.

Oh, I guess

I'm going first. I don't know, I think just for people to try and educate themselves more about her. You know, just because her works are so easily accessible doesn't mean they're engaging as well. I feel like we've got to find a way. They'll become interested in engaging with our stuff, somehow.

So are we. I'd

love to see the church do a bit of a review, and look at where do we assume the knowledge of Ellen White is coming from, because I think there's a lot of assumption that they'll cover it somewhere before they hit 18, but like, where are we meant to be covering it, and then where the gap is.

Giving out things there, whether it's books, sabbath school lessons, DVDs, kids programs, whatever it is, filling the gap for me.

Something that, , one of my Bible study groups just started up recently at the beginning of the year was reading through Steps to Christ. Just with a whole bunch of people who actually, had left church and come back, or didn't have a good, positive relationship with Ellen White, or did,, just a whole mixed bag, or even weren't Adventist.

We just started reading her book together, and then just asking questions about it, oh, what does everyone think? And just by... Jumping in and talking about it. Everyone's really grown and, developed new understandings of Ellen White. And I think just jumping in and starting those connections with people to talk about it is a really positive way to,, spread Ellen White and actually learn about her more.

Well, I think I jumped the gun on you. Do you have another one? I wasn't

sneaking a peek at your notes, Jarrod., I'd say probably like a, just a personal kind of reflection. , like the hardest, it's hardest when you start. You know, and , so, in the beginning you might have to push yourself, but then, the good stuff will come once you become invested.

So, I think Each and every one of us is on a journey, , I was on a journey where we read Ellen White a lot growing up, then I lost motivation along the way, but I've been trying to come back to that, during COVID, started picking up great controversy, re read it again. , like , if each one of us finds the gems there or finds value in doing that, then I think we will all find something great in the stuff she's written.

Well, thank you all for joining the conversation today. It's been a pleasure to, to hear from your perspectives and to wrestle with this idea of how we can make Ellen White,, more relevant to young people., I think she's got a lot of important things to say, wonderful things to say. I'm sure on the comments, if you're watching this on YouTube or wherever you are, you can also make, , your suggestions on how perhaps the church can wrestle with and get better at presenting and engaging with Ellen White.

Thank you for joining us today. God bless.