Record Live Podcast

Holding onto peace in chaos
[00:00:00] Hi there everyone. I'm Jared. And I'm Sunita. We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church faith and living well. We believe as followers of Jesus faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we'd put into practice. Let's go live.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Zita, you guessed it. It's that time of week again. It is time for record live. Welcome, welcome, welcome.
Zanita Fletcher: Thank you. It comes around quickly. I'm like, oh, another record live already. Feels like we just did that.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It comes around super quickly, which must mean that we're very busy in between times because like the time just flies.
Zanita Fletcher: Speaking of busy, you have just been away. Do you wanna tell us where you've been, what you've been doing? [00:01:00]
Jarrod Stackelroth: I have just returned, it was a quick weekend trip to Papua New Guinea. It was a good trip. I appreciated particularly the warmth. It's 30 degrees up there. They have had some unseasonal rain in port mosby.
I think it's usually a lot drier at this time of year, but it was very green, very humid. , The people are wonderful as always. I always get a kick out of spending time with, Adventist Church members up in Papua New Guinea. We did some writing workshops at Pacific Adventist University. , We covered a lot of different topics across the weekend.
We also did some workshops at COA Church, , , in the city.. And yeah, we had a lot of fun. Well, I had a lot of fun. Hopefully those who attended also had some fun. , Yeah, it was just really good time all round, I'd say.
Zanita Fletcher: Do you have any golden moments?
Jarrod Stackelroth: . You know, you're in the islands when you rock up to Friday night, vespers, you sneak [00:02:00] into the back pew, try and sit inconspicuously, and then they ask you to take the service.
So, yeah, I went from sitting up the back to preaching to a bunch of kids, or not kids, university lecturers and students and whoever else was around that was, . You know, you're alive when you have to think on your feet like that. It was quite a surprise, but it was, it was good.
Zanita Fletcher: I feel like when you ever go to the, I'm not speaking from experience, this is just from what I've heard, but whenever you go to the islands, you've kind of gotta go with a sermon in the back of your mind. Just because at some stage someone is gonna ask you to preach,
Jarrod Stackelroth: I would recommend it, even if it's a morning devotional or an evening , thing, or a, just an in a small group setting, there's always, , the opportunity to.
Share, which I think is a good thing because it means that you have to be in the word, you have to be, , updating your, your testimonies, your stories, your thoughts. [00:03:00] Just so you know, if someone did ask, you've got something to share. I think we could probably all learn from that 'cause there might be the opportunity for any of us.
If the spirit, , leads to, to do that. So yeah, it was a good trip.
Zanita Fletcher: Nice. We have another topic in mind, but perhaps sometimes you can, run us through on record live, how to quickly scrimmage together a sermon.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Yeah, that would be an interesting topic, wouldn't it?
Zanita Fletcher: But, what are we talking today, talking about today, Jared?
Jarrod Stackelroth: Good questions, Anita. I went to p and g and in the time between, I think when I arrived and when I came home, the news had reported that Israel was dropping bombs on Iran. Now that's quite a seismic geopolitical conflict, a war. You could say that it's been coming for some time. There's always been tension there, but , in a world that seems to be hurtling towards.
World War iii, dare I say [00:04:00] it. , There's a lot of different conflict zones now, and they're very prominent, they're very, , tense. They're drawing in other nations , and whatever., Some weeks ago actually, we determined to do a column called the 10 in record that we have regularly, on verses that will help you find peace.
So it's in this issue of record coming out this Sabbath, the 21st of June, and there's 10 verses in here that we thought would be good verses to help you find peace. Now we weren't necessarily thinking about,
Zanita Fletcher: I. Happening in the world.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Yeah. Because, , that is maybe beyond the scope of you as an individual to solve.
, There's big conflicts. , What can I do? Little old me. But we all face,, conflict, , chaos, difficulty in our day-to-day lives,, stressful. Things happen. , There's, there's, there's craziness all around us. There's tension with sometimes [00:05:00] relationships that we have or the cost of living crisis.
The news and social media can bombard us with headlines that make our soul unsettled, I guess you could say. And so finding peace is probably. A good thing to do at times like this, and I guess we thought we'd talk about it today because we like to get practical with our faith on record, live, and peace.
, If we can find it, is something that will really practically help our lives,. So I guess that's the first question to pose. Can we create a sense of peace or can we find peace in our own lives?
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah.
Jarrod Stackelroth: What do you think, Anita?
Zanita Fletcher: I think we can, I think it's a, probably a question people find themselves asking at some point in their lives, especially when things are look like they're going mad around us, is like, is peace actually possible?
And like you said, it's not world [00:06:00] peace, but like in a peace, can we experience that? And I think something that I'm learning is that. We have to remember that peace often takes time. Like often we have to wait to see peace or to experience peace. Rarely does that actually just happen in like a moment.
I do know, like I have heard stories where, for example, I have a friend who, he was in jail and , he's experience of coming to know God was, he just felt this like instant peace that like. Surpassed all understanding like we read in the Bible. And for him that was a thing that really changed his life and that was like an instant thing and like a flood of feelings.
But I feel like for a lot of people, , they are in a season of life where they're really struggling or something is happening or the world is gone mad and they like struggle to experience . That peace that we kind of promised in the Bible. And I think a lot of the times in the Bible we, or not in the Bible, I don't think it actually says this in the Bible, but a lot of the times in Christian circles we hear this [00:07:00] idea that peace is a person referring to Jesus.
And that's always confused me 'cause it's like, so what? But I think like what it's getting at is like we can trust Jesus, but. In order to experience peace, we need to trust Jesus. And trust takes time to build. Like we don't just trust people naturally, like off the bat. , I trust my parents because they've shown me years of like loyalty and years that they've got my back and years that they love me.
I trust my friends because they've been there for me over long periods. Like I don't necessarily just trust the guy at seven 11 who is charging me for petrol, or like someone who calls me up asking if I wanna. A discount on my electricity. , Like, it doesn't, it's kind of one of those things that has to be built.
And so I think that kind of comes into the whole experiencing peace thing because I don't know about you, but this was my experience where for years, like at the start of my journey with God, I learnt all these things about God. And I had this idea [00:08:00] that when I faced my, I don't know when I faced a period of discomfort or struggle that I would just be able to pray and experience peace, and that would just be like a quick thing.
, But when I did come to that point in life, it was, that was not how it looked like. It was almost like, wait, where is this peace that you promised me? Why aren't I experiencing this? , And I had to learn that, it's not just a instant thing , that there's a lot more to it than that.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Just to , rewind a little bit. Your story there about your friend, was he seeking peace of any kind? Was he actually asking God and then God gave him peace? Like I, I'm just trying to understand the logistics of what happened there. ,
Zanita Fletcher: I believe he, yeah, he was in jail and he, one of his inmates gave him a Bible and was reading Bible verses to him.
And so he started to kind of like hear these things about God. , But. It was, a bit of, a bit of an experiment, that prayer, like he hadn't come to a full place of , I believe in God.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Right, right, right.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah. [00:09:00]
Jarrod Stackelroth: He was reaching out, connecting, trying to find something , and that sense of peace that flooded him, sort of, yeah.
Convinced, convinced him that God was real or God was worth testing trying. Yeah. That's interesting because it's almost like, . As you were saying, the peace comes after a choice or a decision that we make. , And I think where we get the idea that the, that peace is a person is from maybe the prince of peace being one of Jesus' names.
So Jesus as the prince of peace. And then, okay, if he represents peace, what does that look like for us? And I really liked what you said about trusting, we have to make a choice to trust. God. We've talked, did we talk on this show? I think it was on science radio actually. We talked about the abundance mindset.
I guess that feeds into this conversation a little bit or it's what comes up for me when you were talking about this. What, , we find that we're trying to answer in and of ourselves is that [00:10:00] we run out of. Ourselves eventually, , But Jesus is or can be the answer. He says, I'm the way, the truth and the life I can provide, the answer to your needs.
, And so I guess in that sense, maybe peace comes from a radical act of trusting God.
Zanita Fletcher: Thoughts? I guess so I think, I don't know. There's a few things I, I'm thinking at the moment. It, I always think of, , CS Lewis. When thinking about like peace and trust because, you know, we know CSS Lewis's story had quite a journey. But, , when he was quite like solid in his faith, , he lost his wife and he wrote this book called A Grief Observed, and it was one of his rawest books.
And it's where you see him, really grappling with like sorrow and doubt and this lack of peace. And he is really honest in his book and , he writes this one line where he is like. Where is God? Go to him when your need is desperate, when all other help is vain. [00:11:00] And what do you find a door slammed in your face?
And , he is essentially wrestling with this idea of the absence of peace that he was promised. And , I guess he thought that God would guard his heart and guard his mind and be a more solid rock. But he, over time he did come to a place of peace, but it wasn't like an immediate comfort, like he expected.
It was like a settled trust that . God is always there through everything. And just because he believes in God and follows God doesn't mean it's like a life of comfort and a life of luxury. , Doesn't mean you won't experience any negative things or feelings. And I guess he realized that, yeah, peace doesn't necessarily mean like emotional relief.
It meant like trusting God in the silence, even when there's no clarity and trusting that all the things that God says still hold true. , And that doesn't always come out like a good ending. Like we can, I guess be trusting that God is good, but that doesn't mean that everything is gonna work out like we hoped.
Like there's a lot of people who have stories where their prayers haven't [00:12:00] been answered and I, yeah, I guess there're stuck with that challenging question of like, why does God answer some prayers and not others? And why did this happen? And some of those answers we just will never know, but. It's trusting, that God is still good even though things haven't gone the way you hoped or even though the world is a disaster.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Hmm. Yeah. I found, I suppose in my own experience, that sort of door slammed shut visual from that quote that you read really stood out to me. It's like, you're there. , And it's not even that you see it being slammed shut. It's sometimes that you just arrive at the place where you wanna make a decision or you want to find peace, or you want some outcome and you realize the door is there and it's shut, and you're like, well, where do I go now?
What do I do? And so for me, I've found that can be a very frustrating experience, I suppose.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And. There is a lot of, Hmm. [00:13:00] What would not be described as peace, I suppose, discontent, you know, , difficulty struggling in your own mind, your. Your brain can get into these circular patterns of thinking, where you just revolve around the same thing.
How do I think my way out of this solution? At least that's how I tend to, , when I'm struggling with something, I'll keep playing it over in my mind to try and come up with a solution. But sometimes you're stuck, like internally within your system. There is no real answer because there's nothing you can do.
, In some senses you are quite helpless in that space. I. In those times though, and we've talked about this on the show before, I remember back to other times where they've been long drawn out periods of feeling like God wasn't answering me, but at the same time remembering that he did answer eventually or there was a lesson that I needed to learn or some other.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm.
Jarrod Stackelroth: You know, rationale, my brain comes, finds a way to understand what had happened [00:14:00] in those seemingly closed door situations. So, for example, , I feel like I. Just my personality wise, if, and maybe this is true for many others, , if you got instant answers to all your prayers, I just don't think you would develop in a healthy way, you know?
Mm-hmm. , if that grief that he, he felt CS Lewis, , was erased by God. It was wiped clean,, instantly, as soon as he came with that prayer, could you develop anger towards God for almost erasing the hurt that you lost a loved one? Like it's a significant thing to lose, lose a spouse. ,
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Would you feel like a robot? Does it take away your free choice if God just does that in the instant and those are philosophical, ideas , and. May not help in the midst of actual grief, , in the midst of grief., Keep your philosophy, your theories. It's not, do you know what I mean?
Yeah. It's very well to sit here [00:15:00] and talk about some of this, but in the way I was processing it, when you're saying that, I was like, wow. That's so true and it's so hard and it's so difficult, but what's the alternative that God has if God wipes your brain to make you content or peaceful , after such a traumatic or difficult experience, , is that fair on you?
Is it fair on your autonomy and your humanity? Like is it respecting your free will? , Yeah, those are some of the things that come up for me.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, definitely. I definitely get what you mean. I remember, , oh, during COVID, this is like a silly small example, but hit hit me hard at the time during COVID. I, , remember feeling like everyone was talking about the end of the world and I was like, I don't.
I don't really want the world to end. Like I actually like it here and I still wanna get married and have kids and like I remember praying in that period like, oh, can you, . I don't know, like help me to kind of like desire heaven because I feel like me not wanting to go [00:16:00] to heaven is like a reflection of me not really understanding how good you are.
And following that was just a whole like a few years of just so much struggle and so many things that were kind of like pulled out of my life. And I actually did start to like really yearn for heaven. So I think it's also like, , we don't really yearn for him and yearn for more. When everything is like so good, if God was to take away CS Lewis's grief and his heartache,, he wouldn't, I don't know.
He wouldn't know how good it was almost, or, mm-hmm. Yeah, that seems philosophical question. I think also as humans, we have a tendency to think, . How do I pronounce this word? Catastrophically. And so when things aren't going good, our head can really get the better of us and we just think the worst will happen.
And, we catastrophize things and we think the worst case possible scenarios. And that also robs us from experiencing peace. It's not so much the circumstances that are actually [00:17:00] robbing us of peace sometimes it's like our mindset that is robbing us of peace. And I think sometimes. Getting better at correcting your thoughts is like super powerful and transformative when you're trying to experience peace, because it can be like a massive head thing at times, I think.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Mm-hmm. And that phrase, the peace that passes understanding, like, it's almost like you shouldn't have peace in this situation, but you do because you know that God is sovereign and he's overall. And, and that's what I think of. I like that phrase. , Only because it makes me think about peace slightly differently.
It likes, what does it mean that it doesn't make sense? What does it mean that it passes human understanding? , How does that happen? And so I guess for me it's like. That peace isn't always something that comes super easily. Sometimes it's hard won, hard fought as we've been talking about, but also sometimes it does come from God when it really shouldn't, like life can be catastrophic, as [00:18:00] you said.
It can actually be worse than just us catastrophizing things. It can actually be terrible. , Totally. , I saw an interview on, , I think it was on a clip that I was watching the other day with the, , Abboud father, he lost his children in that car accident. A drugged up, , drunk driver took out hi some of his kids , and their cousins, and he was talking about forgiveness for this guy.
Now, the peace that he. Is able to find as a father who has had his kids taken away from him by a stupid decision from someone else. Mm-hmm. That is peace that passes understanding. For me, that is peace that only God can. Provide. And so, and then, and then you see, , interviews with Christians in the Middle East who have been persecuted.
, I saw there was a nun, I think she lived in Syria or somewhere, and she was the last Christian in the village. She was the last caretaker of this old historic. [00:19:00] Church, this beautiful church that was there , and they're trying to drive her out. They're trying to persecute her and get rid of her. And she's saying, well, they can kill me, but I need to stay here.
Like, this is my commitment, this is my mission. And only God can put that kind of peace contentment. . You know, sacrificial spirit in us., I believe I, I just can't see how our own human nature , can create something like that within us. And so, yeah, it really is a choice. It is a supernatural gift.
Sometimes that only comes from God.
Zanita Fletcher: It reminds me of that song, that hymn. It is well. Where it's , I don't know if you know the story behind when I think it says when peace like a river attends my way and then it goes on to say it is well with my soul. But yes, the guy who wrote that, his four daughters died in a ship crossing out the Atlantic.
And so he wrote that during that time, but which is profound. It's, it's exactly that verse when Pete's like the peace that surpasses understanding. 'Cause it's like how can you [00:20:00] experience peace? Amidst all of that.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Mm. Horatio, I think his name was
Zanita Fletcher: Horatio Zita.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Zita. You. Have quite an interest in health and wellbeing.
I'm interested to know if there are any practical things we can do in our lives to try and cultivate some of that peace or think about some of that peace. We've said that peace is a choice, it's a gift from God. Sometimes it's only available from him, but are there things we can do to be more peaceful, or be more contented?
Are practical things in our lives that we can do.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm. Yeah. I like to keep, , I like to remember the phrase piece is a practice because I think there are definitely things you can do and I think even before you are in the chaos, there are things that you can be doing. Like I said, learning to correct your thoughts is something that I think you can start doing before life is chaotic.
You can just like, okay,
Jarrod Stackelroth: so like, , is it Paul? It says, I take [00:21:00] every thought captive. Something like that. So, so that concept of you're thinking something and you're like, actually it's just how I feel, or it's just my human reaction. I need to grab and control that , and actually I can reframe that in some sense.
Okay? Mm-hmm.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah. So I think that's one thing. That's a good one. Mm-hmm. Another thing I think is, . Being thankful. , I think Paul says in the Bible as well, he says, do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation by prayer and petition with Thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And that word anxious there, , it, it means like when you translate, it means to be in pieces, which is exactly how we feel in these situations where things are chaotic.
We just feel like in shattered pieces. Mm-hmm. But like, what do you do with that? And this verse is saying. With Thanksgiving, present your request to God. And I think that's really important because so often we are just like hyperfocused, I guess this is our faulting mindset again, we are just hyperfocused on what is going wrong when there can be like a million things that are still [00:22:00] going well in our life.
And I think when we focus on the good things, it , puts our mind in perspective. Like we don't. We are not just single-mindedly focused on that one thing, but we're aware that there are other good things in our life. And like you said before, that can be like Thanksgiving from the past. Like we can thank God for how things have turned out in the past and that can give us hope and peace for that.
Things will like kind of come around again. Mm-hmm. I think that's another thing. .
Jarrod Stackelroth: So inform your emotions, give thanks and everything I. You got some more?
Zanita Fletcher: I got some more. , I think I remember , there was a time in my life, I don't know if I've ever shared this on record life, maybe not.
But, , it was a time similar when I prayed this prayer about, , I. Wanting to, I guess, desire heaven. And a few months after that, I, life was just kind of crazy and, , I wasn't experiencing really much peace at all, but I was experiencing peace. , When I would go into the ocean and go surfing, it was just like my [00:23:00] safe place for a period.
And one day I was out in the surf and there was like a lot of people out there. So I decided to just go to a little, like, part of the break where there wasn't anyone. And I was surfing there for a while and as I was surfing there, this guy came along and he, um, I. He started surfing there as well.
And I had recently had a skateboarding accident, so I had this like open wound on my knee that I'd wrapped up with Glad Wrap and I was, I just caught a wave and I was thinking, oh, should I go get another wave or should I paddle back in? And I started feeling these like aching pains in my knee that had wrapped up.
So I was like. I'll go back in, like I'll paddle back in and as I was paddling back in, , this guy who was out there with me, he got attacked by a shark and he died instantly. And I was like so angry, like after this because I was like, I felt like God had taken like the one. One like peaceful thing in my life at the moment and I was like, I'm already like struggling so much and now you've just taken away like my [00:24:00] safe haven kind of thing.
, And so I was like really frustrated at God , at that moment. But I remember, and I think this is what I'm getting at. I remember I had a friend at the time and, . She is awesome. Her name's Katie if she ever listens to this, but she, like for weeks after that, she would like just go to the ocean with me.
And for the first day we just dipped our feet in the water and just walked around because just the thought of the ocean now just made me sick and like the idea of surfing just made me. Kind of wanna vomit. , And yeah, she would just like come to the beach with me every day and we'd just like, touch the water or walk in the water.
And then gradually we just went into the water up to our waist and then we got our boards and paddled out, but we could still touch the ground. So we hadn't gone far. And like eventually it got to the point where like, she just kind of as if I was a child, she just teeted me back to the surf.
And so I think having people who kind of know what we are going through and know. What we're afraid of and what we're struggling with, , can be super helpful in like helping us to conquer those [00:25:00] things because sometimes that's really difficult to do alone. , So I think like having people that, , you can let into that space can really help.
, But the other thing she did was, , she, she kind of educated me about sharks and. What they do in the ocean, that they're actually like protectors of the ocean and that there's a million other things that, , you're probably gonna die off before a shark. And , yeah, she just kind of like changed my perspective of things, I guess subtly, and gradually.
And so I think that kind of goes back to as well, ,. Questioning things like, are these things that I'm afraid of? How likely is that gonna happen? , Even though I'd just seen that happen, how likely was that actually gonna happen again? And , yeah, I don't know. It was just really helpful I guess, having someone like a, walk me through whatever I was afraid of and, , I guess change my thinking, like change that perspective that I had.
Yeah, so I think there, there's a few things. It's like. [00:26:00] Thanksgiving. , Having community, having someone to let you in, training your mind. , There was one other one we had.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It, it would be remiss of me as a writer, not to mention the catharsis that can be gained from writing down your emotions, your thoughts.
, Actually keeping a journal or doing a morning pages kind of practice. I've talked about that here before and how it's helped me in some ways. But I remember a time in, , high school when I was really struggling with. A lack of peace. Basically. What am I gonna do with my life? High school's great church is great, family's great, but what happens next?
I was afraid for the future. Basically that uncertainty of the future. And that's a lot of times what anxiety or worry can be based around. It's like what's gonna happen down the track. And I remember deciding to write a poem that would hopefully, I had heard the idea of, . Angsty artists and getting your feelings out through the creative endeavors and, , so I decided [00:27:00] to write a poem.
I wrote this poem by the end of the poem. It had flipped from my anxiety and my worries, the darkness that I felt was burdening me to the light, into the light. , The light is the thing that can push away the darkness. And it was a personification of Jesus in, this poem. I didn't. Intend to have the poem go that way, but as I was writing it just sort of came in , and gave me a sense of peace.
And after that point. I knew that it was all gonna be okay. I didn't have the answers. It was still a, a season of waiting and wondering what was gonna happen, but I wasn't stressed or fearful about it. Some of the, the angst had just left. And so, yeah, as a writer, I would talk about the practice of writing out your thoughts and your feelings, writing out your prayers.
That's good in two ways. First of all, it helps. Yeah, get it out of your system. The second way is you can look back on those thoughts and those prayers and remember them in better times or in worse times when you see actually [00:28:00] God answer that prayer. I just didn't realize he, he'd done it. So, yeah. I, I, I wanna add that one.
You've made a great list. , Inform your emotions. Have people around you that can help you to reframe things. Writing. That's a good one. What was the other one? I'm missing one. Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving in everything. Very good. So that's a good practical list for us this week. If we are feeling like we don't have a lot of peace.
The other thing we can do is check out the June 21 issue of record and see that verses the 10 verses. I imagine sometimes spent meditating on those verses and thinking about them would give, . Some small comfort to those who are reading. I would hope so. There's another thing you can do. Read your Bible and pray every day as the little song says,
Zanita Fletcher: yeah, we've missed that one, but that's also great.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I think we mention it every week, so it's just a baseline for our viewers, our listeners. We know that we should be doing that, we should be doing that. , We don't always do it as much as we should, but it's definitely helpful to [00:29:00] your life. We recommend it here on record live. Well, I think we've run out of time, Zita.
That's been, hopefully helpful and practical conversation for our listeners and our viewers. Anything else we need to say?
Zanita Fletcher: See you next week.
Jarrod Stackelroth: We will see you next week. God bless and can't wait for another week of record live.