Record Live Podcast

From dad bod to father figure
[00:00:00] Hi there everyone. I'm Jared. And I'm Sunita. We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church faith and living well. We believe as followers of Jesus faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we'd put into practice. Let's go live.
Zanita Fletcher: Hello. Hello everyone and welcome back to another week of Record Live. We have the whole crew with us today. Jared. Jesse, welcome back to Record Live.
It's great to have you. We excited. Nice. We are having a special conversation today in light of Fast Day this weekend. And Jared and Jesse, I know you are both fathers to young kids, so you probably haven't had. Many of these weekend occasions., [00:01:00] But do you have any ideas? What's on the cards for Father's Day this weekend?
Jesse Herford: Do you wanna go first? Jared?
Jarrod Stackelroth: I saw a gift that my daughter brought home earlier this week from school. She wasn't very, her teacher told her as she walked out the door, don't show him until Sunday, but she proceeded to pull it out in the car and look at it, , et cetera. So, yeah, I kind of know that I may be at least getting one pair of socks, a basketball pair of socks, which I'm chuffed about 'cause some of my socks are a bit holy at the moment.
, Apart from that, I do not know what's on the cards. I think there's a special thing at church, which will be nice, I think. , Yeah, they're celebrating fathers at church this Sabbath as well, so that will be fun.
Zanita Fletcher: Awesome. What about you, Jesse?
Jesse Herford: , Not too sure, however, I do have a bit of an idea as far as the present's concerned.
, Recently our kettle broke and, , it just started leaking everywhere, which is not ideal. Uh, at the best of times. And, , people [00:02:00] who know me, they know that I do like my coffee. And so there was a particular coffee kettle. If you don't know, certain kettles have, , a type of neck called a gooseneck, which makes it, more easy to, , make certain kinds of coffee.
And so I, I said to my wife, Hey, you know, to replace the kettle, let's get this kind. It took a bit of convincing. Eventually I convinced her. And then when we finally got it, she said, oh, by the way, this is your Father's Day present. Okay. Alright. And so sorted.
Zanita Fletcher: Nice. So it wasn't Bridget's idea.
Jesse Herford: Oh, you know, I'm sure if she was cognizant of the entire thing, she would've approved.
So yeah.
Zanita Fletcher: Do you wanna tell the audience how old Bridget.
Jesse Herford: Sure. Yeah. So my daughter Bridget is one and a half. , I have one, Jared has two. So yeah, this is my second Father's day, , with her last year I got a mug and, , some, some lovely cuddles. And so, [00:03:00] yeah, this is, , definitely an improvement. I, I got a mug last year.
I'm getting a kettle this year, so I'm not sure what the progression is gonna be in terms of gifts, but there is a theme going.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, I. Still a little young to be, conjuring up Father's Day gift ideas, I suppose. So
Jesse Herford: either way, it'll be much appreciated.
Zanita Fletcher: Um, we have titled this conversation from Dad bod to Father Figure, which I think is a great plan on words. I can't take credit, but I think it's great. And it was inspired by your, , editorial, I believe Jared, , in the record.
Do you wanna unpack a little bit what that, I guess the gist of Dad Born to Father figure means?
Jarrod Stackelroth: It came from a t-shirt that an influencer wears sometimes on, , Instagram, and he's famous for making dad jokes. So the pun stood out to me at the first. I, I do like a good pun as someone who works with words a lot, you know, the idea of a dad bod is, , fairly common.
I guess it [00:04:00] describes that often when people become fathers, and I can speak to this, , the. Going to the gym and working out and maintaining your physique sort of becomes slightly less important. And sometimes a little pot belly creeps in or something like that. And so that's commonly known as a dad bod.
And sometimes even in a. A little bit of a disparaging way. Oh, that guy's got a dad bod now. , But the idea of this t-shirt was that, you know, , it says, I'm not a dad bod, I'm a father figure. And it just sort of got me thinking, well, what does that actually mean? It's a funny joke. It's a play on words, but, , to me, I sort of started reflecting on, the casualness of a dad.
Dad bod as opposed to the intentionality of a father figure. Like to be a father figure, maybe you need to, . Yeah, put some intention behind it. And I guess that flips the common, you know, commonly people will say, you know, anyone can be a father as in biologically DNA, [00:05:00] wise, but it takes a special someone to be a dad.
And I guess that in encapsulates the warmth of the word or the idea that, you know, when you're angry with your dad, you might call them father, but when you, you love your dad, it's dad or daddy, you know, something more endearing. So yeah. I guess this flips that a little on the head. , I'm not sort of commenting on that other saying commonly used.
, But I think, yeah, for me, this saying not, you know, I'm not a a dad bottom. I'm a father figure, spoke to, and , the influencer, he makes a lot of dad jokes, but he's also known as fit dad, CEO or something. So I think it's also about fitness and he encourages,, active lifestyles and that sort of thing.
So. The father figure sounds a bit more sophisticated, a bit more sleek and suave , and you have to put work in to be that for someone. , And so I guess that was where, the reflection started and, and editorial grew out of that, , in, in time for Father's Day.
So.
Zanita Fletcher: I think last week we had a [00:06:00] conversation with Anna on mental fitness, so I guess it's kind of running with that, but I guess, so what you're saying, , dad bought is something that kind of just happens naturally, , and then father figure is like, has a bit more intention carried with it.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Yeah, I think there needs to be some work put in, I guess.
Zanita Fletcher: What is that? . I feel like, dad, what is the thing that's kind of been joked about for a long time and the idea of a father figure is something that's more of something to like, , aim for and be more intentional about. What does that kind of shift looked like? Is that something that you've kind of been thinking about and dwelling on or, , yeah.
Like how has that intentionality carried out , in your own experience?
Jarrod Stackelroth: I. I think we should hear from Jesse while I think about this.
Jesse Herford: Yeah, I mean, I'm not the one who wrote the editorial, so maybe I haven't thought about this quite as much as you have Jared. , But I mean, I've certainly had my own thoughts around what being a father figure [00:07:00] is.
, I think there, yeah, I think there's a lot of discussion. Around what a mom is and the responsibility of a mother. You know, we've often talked, , in our world, in Signs, in Signs world about motherhood and,, the mom load and things like that. Mm-hmm. And I think sometimes there is maybe a sense in which we downgrade the responsibility of dad underneath that, of, of mom, .
I think I felt that in my own life sometimes, to give you an example, , for the last, oh, maybe month or two, , it's only been me that's been able to put my daughter to sleep at night. Well, for whatever reason she has picked me and I'm the only one who can actually. Get it done. But that has actually recently, like in the last week, just flipped, , where she will just scream and cry if I'm the one trying to put her to sleep.
And it's only when my wife steps in that she calms down and it's like, at first it's like, what, what is going on? You know, [00:08:00] I don't understand is she hate me now? Kind of thing. , And so like, I think. For me at least, being a dad is have been a very confusing and, , you know. It's required me to be really, like, have to be flexible and like really change depending on what my daughter needs.
, And that's, that's always changing. So yeah, it's really definitely kept me on my toes and, , I haven't been able to, at least as yet, take too many things for granted or being able to,, nail anything down as far as like, what's the right approach, what's the right technique? For, for many of the ways that I have to parent.
So
Zanita Fletcher: I guess that would be particularly difficult when they can't yet speak.
Jesse Herford: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Zanita Fletcher: What about you, Jared?
Jarrod Stackelroth: Well, I think just going off what Jesse is saying, like it's, , it is fluid, it is an evolving thing that you learn and you sort of, you have one, , child and you think, okay, I've nailed this system.
I've figured out the [00:09:00] routine a little bit. And then another one comes along and they're completely different to the first one. And so you can't just, it's not one size fits all. It's not one trick or one idea. , And that. That , reminds me of,, you can't change other people. Like, you can't determine which kid's gonna want you which night or whether they will cling to you and, and not want their mother, or, but you can determine how you'll react to that.
And I suppose. That's what I'm sort of starting to get at when I'm thinking about intentionality. And I'm not one to be very good at this necessarily, even myself, but the reality is we live in a broken world and we've all had difficult experiences in our lives, and so we react to things that come at us, not always with intentionality.
Sometimes we just react to how we're feeling, and yet I'm discovering more and more like, ooh. Maybe the way I react to my children [00:10:00] isn't modeling a very healthy way for them reacting. Like when you get headbutted in the nose by your boisterous,, 2-year-old, , it's very easy to. Shout or to get angry or to, you know, want to , inflict some sort of punishment or some sort of pain back on them to say, Hey.
Like, hey, that is not the right behavior here., And there is, you know, plenty of stuff in the Bible about disciplining children and, and making sure that, , they are not just sort of running wild, but at the same time you have to. You have to analyze your reactions and go, am I reacting out of a place of control of myself or am I triggered or am I.
Lashing out because I feel a certain way. Am I jealous that my kids just want my wife and so I am treating them like adults, like they're [00:11:00] consciously rejecting me rather than realizing this is a phase or a season that they're in, and, they're just reacting , in that way. Mm-hmm. , And so these are the things we wrestle with as parents.
Like there's no handbook on how to do it. Our own parents have done the best they can and, and we're thankful for the blessings that they've given us. If we've had good parents who loved us, they've tried their best, and yet they've maybe made mistakes, they've maybe reacted from a place of.
You know, at their wits end or the, or very low tank, , themselves and they've struggled with things. So they've passed some of that on to us and then we can easily pass that on to our children if we're not intentional about it. And so I think, yeah, thinking before we act or acting out of,, the wrong place, but then being willing to.
Address the situation, make amends, apologize to our children or our spouse. , Some of those things can model,, good ways to [00:12:00] behave, good ways to react to situations. And at the end of the day, we should be reflecting our Heavenly Father as fathers. And so there's something in that as well. We need to become more Christlike, which is the work of a lifetime in this broken world.
And. Hopefully our children will see Christ through us. You know, it's very easy, I think, for people to be turned off God the Father, if they've had a abusive or terrible father experience, and so we have a great responsibility as dads to be like trying to be a bit more like God so that they can see God through us.
It's not that we become God in their world, you know, or anything like that, but it's like if I can act more like Jesus. Then maybe my kids will get to know Jesus through me and hopefully then have their own relationship with Jesus one day.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm, absolutely. I remember my mom, , telling us this story about how me and my siblings were all throwing [00:13:00] a tantrum one day and my mom decided to copy us and throw a tantrum back and get on the floor.
And apparently we just all looked at her and we're like, what? Are you doing? And which certainly probably isn't the advised way to teach your kids how to respond or react in life, but, and I don't remember dad ever doing that himself, but I just Yeah. Thought it was a funny, , link to your story, Jared, but you've both kind of mentioned things that you didn't expect, I suppose, coming into fatherhood.
. What about like from your own fathers? Is there things that you were like, I really love how my dad did this or raised me like this, that you intentionally have tried to like copy and replicate in your own families? How about you go first?
Jesse Herford: , Look, my dad, , loved my dad. He is not perfect, and I inherited his temper, which I've been working on, and he's been working on his whole life as well.
However, one of the earliest [00:14:00] memories that I have of my dad. I don't even remember what he did, but he got angry one day and he snapped, or he shouted or he did something. I actually have no memory of whatever it was that he did, but I remember later that evening, I was just in my room reading a book. I still remember the book that I was reading.
It was some science book and. He came in and he apologized to me. And I remember being really taken aback by my dad coming in and apologizing to me because I just didn't expect that that's something that he would ever do. And that really stuck with me for whatever reason. , You know, stuffing up is part of life and we do it all the time.
Having the humility to say, I'm sorry, even if it's to your little 5-year-old kid or however old I was at the time, I was really young. , It was huge and it [00:15:00] really did set an example to me from a very early age of if you do stuff up, you apologize. You make it right. And that takes a lot of humility and that takes a lot of guts.
, So I always really appreciated that about my dad.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm. Comes back to that intentionality. Hmm
Jarrod Stackelroth: hmm. Yeah. My dad, , when I was really young, my dad worked really hard, so he was often out late at night and different things. And , you know, I think mom tells the story of when one of us was born or the other.
, He came straight from work to the hospital. Because he wasn't allowed to have the day off, sort of for the birth of his child, and he, he had to work the next day sort of thing. , And, and that's just how society was set up at that time. And, and, and we didn't have a lot, but he worked incredibly hard.
And yet, I guess the things that, my earliest memories of my dad, the things that stand out to me is like playing catch with a tennis ball [00:16:00] or kicking the footy back and forth just at the park down the end of our street, like. Those times and family holidays and stuff where dad had some time on the weekend, you know, there was gardening to do, there was working on the car, there was church stuff.
. Often on Sabbath afternoon he'd have a nap 'cause he was exhausted from the week. But he would make time on the weekends to play with us. Just to be with us and be a father. And, , and I, I still remember that. And I try to go with my own children. Sometimes my wife doesn't appreciate it, but it's like there's chores to be done.
There's dishes in the sink, but we need to play before bedtime. We need to play. We need to spend time together enjoying one another's company and being present. I guess it's even harder these days with screens in every room. You know, your phone goes with you everywhere, and it's easy to fall into the habit of, I've got some downtime.
I'm on the couch, I'm gonna scroll on my phone, and I'm making a conscious effort to put my phone away. [00:17:00] Play with my kids. 'cause maybe that's what they'll remember of me when they're older, that dad took time and was present with us. , Because that's something I really appreciate from my own dad. Like, hey, he played, he played, he threw the ball back and forth.
We had some good times and I was a terrible throw, so it would always go wayward and he'd have to chase it down the road and, but. Having that time was what was important to me. It didn't make me a star athlete, it just meant that I had time with my dad. Mm
Jesse Herford: mm Hey, just on that, , Jared just reminded me of one other memory from my childhood.
One of the things that we always used to do, we didn't always do morning worship, , but we'd always do evening worship. And I don't even rem really remember what we used to do. Maybe Uncle Arthur's bedtime stories or maybe the, you know, the lesson, the lesson quarterly, I'm not quite sure.
I don't really remember. But what I, what I remember is that we would always kneel down to pray, always kneeling down in the living room. And [00:18:00] as soon as , my dad would usually pray, and as soon as he said Amen, my brother and I would always pounce on him and we'd have a bit of a wrestle in the living room.
So random. But, , you know, we'd always, as little kids just sort of rough house with dad and, we, we used to love it. And you know, it's funny they say. , Now child psychologists say that, , kids that roughhouse with their parents, tend to grow up to be, have more confidence, , 'cause they're more confident in their bodies.
They're,, able to distinguish between play fighting and real fight and all that sort of stuff. So, you know, I'm not saying that , I'm, I'm more confident or more whatever because of that. But, I think having that tradition as a family. Was an anchoring point for us and also, a great bonding time as well.
So, yeah,
Zanita Fletcher: that's really interesting. I think, typically we look at. The world is getting worse and worse, and we tend to [00:19:00] focus on, , everything that's going wrong. But interestingly, there seems to have been , a positive shift in the amount of time that fathers spend with their children. I think it says that millennials are three times more involved in their child's lives than previous generations, which is.
Awesome. , But in saying that,, I know both of you obviously work like your classic nine to five life, you probably leave the house at like 7:00 AM and get home around like 5:00 PM , how do you guys go. Staying enthused and being present with your kids when you get home at the end of a long day, like practically talking.
How do you, because I imagine that if I was a dad and I was going home to allowed energetic children, I would just want to flop on the couch for the rest of the night. But how do you go home and just like continue to be that dad that shows up to your kids?
Jarrod Stackelroth: Look, no matter how stressful the day is or how bad the day is, I get energy from my children.
They're so excited, they're so happy [00:20:00] to see me. , It's actually a joy of my day to walk in the door and. Daddy, daddy and they run. They run from wherever they are in the house and grab me and give me a cuddle. So I love that. And I wanna be present for my kids. The hard thing, I think Sunita is like my own personal fitness, my own personal health.
Getting time to. Decompress and do stuff for myself. 'cause I'm a worse father if I get stressed and burnt out , and whatever. , And sometimes my kids themselves are the ones that are actively working against me having any me time. So, in other words, they don't want me to leave the house after I've arrived home to go to the gym for half an hour or something next door or to , do any exercise or, or something like that.
It's hard. You gotta get them quickly fed quickly into the. Shower quickly into bed, , by bedtime and still have play and reading stories and quality time. And it's like, it means we don't necessarily eat that well or we eat quickly. , [00:21:00] My wife and I might scoff something down, you know? . After they've gone to bed, so we're eating later in the day.
All of these things aren't necessarily great for you, but it's like, how do you make your kids have that really good experience, that really good life? And I, I don't know about Jesse, , maybe he can speak to this, but as a father, it's very, very easy for me to sacrifice myself, but not to sacrifice my kids.
And so. That's a challenge that I face. You know, how do I stay energized? How do I stay vibrant and happy in those spaces? Well, I can show up for my kids, but can I show up for myself? That's sometimes a challenge, and you just have to recognize that different seasons of life, you have different capacity for certain things.
I think we've talked a long time ago, maybe with melody on this show about . Not getting time for devotional and a prayer as much as you might like to, or, or things like that. Not being able to get up at four 30 and do that because you're tired and after the kids go to bed, you're doing chores or , whatever.
[00:22:00] It's like, well. Sometimes you just have to recognize this is a season of life that won't last forever. When they're a bit older, they'll go, maybe go to their rooms and do their homework or, play online games with their friends and they won't want to talk to us as parents anymore for a while. So you've gotta really, yeah.
Then I can go to the gym or do whatever I want because they won't need me as much. And so, yeah, you've just gotta figure out the balance , and try and find a way to show up. Keep showing up. I'll be really interested to see in 10, 15, 20 years how those kids adjust and what benefit they got from having three times as much of their father for the next generation.
You know, maybe we can do something positive and the world will change for the better because kids have had more of their father. , Yeah. Around, maybe it won't, maybe we'll discover that we've done. poorly as a generation by messing up gender roles or, you know, who knows? I, I guess,, but for us it's what we [00:23:00] feel we need to do.
I think speaking as a millennial dad myself, it's like that's what my kids want and need, and that's what I want to give them , as much time with me as possible. , Seeing it in that missional aspect, like I want my kids, , the greatest desire of my life is for my kids to know and to love Jesus. .
And if, you know, we often hear about pks and how they're not connected or how dad was out doing bible studies till 10 o'clock every night and saving the whole world. But the kids don't get any role model , and that's not throwing shade on anyone that you know has different experiences.
But I think for me, the way I'm wrestling through this is like. I need to show up for my kids. I need to be present at their events. I need to be present in their lives. And hopefully while I'm doing that, I can teach them more about the love of Jesus and by modeling it, by being humble myself and letting Jesus, , change me, work on me, keep working on me, and they'll see me being worked [00:24:00] on and they'll want the Jesus that I know to be part of their lives.
So.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah.
Jesse Herford: Yeah, totally reiterate everything Jared said. Just ditto to all of that. , There are two things that I probably, the only two things I'd add to it is for me, I don't know what this was like for you, Jared, but I went through a stage where I was just tired all the time. , And I think that was probably maybe like the first six months at least of my daughter's life.
, Especially like, 'cause she was our first and everybody said, oh, make sure you get as much sleep as possible before she's born. 'cause you never get a sleep again. And like yeah, that's true to a certain extent. But I don't dunno. I, I think I've gotten, I, I got to a point where you just kind of live with it and you try, you kind of adjust to a new physiological normal.
And I'm not a doctor, so I don't know how your body does that, but, , at least for me, it, there was a normalizing factor of like, okay, this is just how life is and we're just gonna cope with it for now. Was that a similar thing for you, Jared? [00:25:00] Was it different? ,
Jarrod Stackelroth: Our first, our first was a, an amazing sleeper.
She was sleeping through the night very early, and I don't think I felt quite the same tiredness. We did have lockdowns and COVID craziness at the time, so it was a wild sort of journey, but. I think God blessed us because we needed her to be fairly simple. She was a good eater, a good sleeper, and didn't have the colic and all the crazy, you know, up all night things.
So that was great. But when we got our second one, he was a poor sleeper. So Reuben, yeah. Made it a lot more difficult to sleep and I did. We both felt a lot more pressure and a lot more stress when he came along., People joke like, oh, if my first one had been like my second one, I wouldn't have had the second one, sort of thing that, that's not necessarily our experience.
But you certain certainly, , can relate when you're like, oh heck,, am I ever gonna sleep again? Is this, gonna continue forever? And you do go through periods of Yeah. Real exhaustion. And tiredness just from not getting a proper solid sleep [00:26:00] every night. , That is definitely what I mean by the season of parenting that you're in.
'cause when you're not getting enough good sleep, it's very hard to get up at four 30 and do a devotion. . When you're already exhausted, you've been up three times before four 30. , When your alarm goes off, you'd just much rather sleep than do anything else. But I think God understands that the season that you're in is, is difficult.
You're not getting enough sleep, and you have to find other ways to connect with him and with others through that period because , it's just a season. It will pass. You know, people joke, you won't get a good sleep until they're 18. . I don't think that's quite true. , I think it does change in different seasons, but then there will be times of sickness and times of difficulty and times of lack of sleep, and you've just gotta roll with the punches, I think.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Jared, , oh, you wanna say something?
Jesse Herford: Oh, no, that's okay. Go on.
Zanita Fletcher: Okay. , I'm just conscious of time and I know that on record live, we like to end things On a practical note, , Jared, something that I liked in your article [00:27:00] was that you said the phrase father figure, , doesn't just include people who are literal dads, but it can include people who,
I guess act as like a father to someone else who maybe doesn't have one or doesn't have a good one, or whatever the case is. , And I, I guess I'm curious, you can both answer this briefly, , i know there's like instructional advice in the Bible as to how to be a. A good dad or how to be a good parent, and a lot of that mirrors the character of God.
But if you could advise someone who maybe isn't a dad, maybe they are, but just wants to be a father figure to people in their life, what is something that you've,, , picked up from learning about God that you would be like, Hey, this is what God does. This is what you can be to people in your life, whether they're your children or not.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Mm-hmm. , God forgives endlessly. He's very gracious. He loves me when I screw up, and I don't think I quite understood that. And people say this all the time, and I didn't [00:28:00] understand it straight away, but, , as my kids are becoming older and becoming more, they can lie now. You know, they can intentionally do things that they know is borderline, you know, not right and yet.
I have this love for them that I might be upset with or try and, address the behavior that's problematic. But I still love them to bits and, and, , , it's a lot. I was reading through Proverbs recently and I saw this first, , that I like, , that popped out to me in, in context of this conversation when we, we said we were gonna talk about this.
I, I went to find it again. , And it's Proverbs 14. Verse 26, he who fears the Lord has a secure fortress and for his children it will be a refuge. So I think that if we follow God and , we respect him, we love him, we fear him, , it's archaic language that we don't use anymore. But if we have that fear of the Lord, .
It not only creates [00:29:00] a secure fortress for us, but for his children, it becomes a refuge. And that's my children, you know? So the more I can find my security in God, the more I can find my, , identity in him, the more my children can. Find some refuge, find some security from the storms of life. , And I think that applies to father figures as well.
You know, people, I'm very conscious of the fact not everyone can be a father for whatever reason. And I'm, . For many years, my wife and I thought maybe that would be our circumstance. Maybe that would be our situation. And so I was looking at my nephew, I was looking at kids at church, people I knew, how can I pour into their lives?
How can I show them God? How can I show them through my behavior that they're loved? I know their name, I care about them, and that they need to, you know, have God in their lives, , as well.
Jesse Herford: Yeah, for, for a couple [00:30:00] years. That was sort of my experience too, not in terms of not being able to have kids, but I was a school chaplain, , for a number of years at primary schools and, you know, we used.
Have so many students from different walks of life, some from good families and some from really bad families. And , I remember some of these kids would call my wife mum. , Just Freudian slip kind of thing. Do you know? Yeah. , As their class teacher, , and,, feeling like you're the best father figure or mother figure that some of these kids have, many of whom have parents incarcerated or, , out of the picture on drugs or, or whatever the case may be.
That's a huge responsibility. And there are people in our schools, , in our churches, in local community programs who are doing that. , And , as a pastor and as a chaplain, I used to work with some of those folks and, , incredible respect, incredible respect for people who do that and who show up for kids who aren't for their [00:31:00] own.
, Just in response to your question, Sunita, the thing that I would probably. Note, you know, when it comes to. Issues in the world. , Theological issues, social issues. We often, we, we often turn to the Bible for answers and that's fine. The Bible has a lot of great answers for the questions in life, but also frustratingly, sometimes the Bible doesn't have the perfect answer to the question that we're struggling with.
Sure. And I think that God doesn't give us. Answers for everything, for good reason. And, as I reflect on fatherhood, I've come to realize that sometimes being a great father isn't about giving the right answer for everything, but being a steady, calming presence. And that's what, God is for me, , a steady gut calming presence.
And to know that., God is journeying with [00:32:00] me through my questioning, through my doubt, , through my failure. You won't walk out. , My lighthouse. My lighthouse. Anyway, , um. That to me is, is what a good dad does. That's what my dad's done. That's what father figures in my life have done. And God willing, that's what I can do , for, for younger folk in my life.
, And yeah, so I think that's, that's something that I would, I would note about. Yeah. God's character.
Zanita Fletcher: That's awesome. Yeah, that's something I think we can all kind of take forth, whether we're dads, moms, not parents, or yeah. Wherever we are. Thank you Jesse and Jared for coming on and talking about fatherhood and your experience of fatherhood and all of that.
, Today, for all the dads listening, we wanna wish you a Happy Father's Day on Sunday. Thank you for what you do , and we just pray that you have a awesome day. Thanks everyone. We'll see you next week on Record Live. [00:33:00]