Record Live Podcast

David Riley_ Cancer_ cars and courage in the face of adversity
[00:00:00] Hi there everyone. I'm Jared. And I'm Sunita. We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church faith and living well. We believe as followers of Jesus faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we'd put into practice. Let's go live.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Record Live. It is amazing to have my co-host Anita here with me again today. And we are joined today by Pastor David Riley. , Pastor Dave, welcome to the show.
David Riley: Yeah, thanks, Jared. Thanks, Anita. Thanks for having me
Jarrod Stackelroth: now. This, conversation has come about in some ways because you've got a book that you are releasing shortly.
It's called Bubsie and the Boys, and [00:01:00] I thought we could start, . Just with an intro, what is the book about and why did you write it? Why is it a passion project of yours?
David Riley: Well, look, , , four or five years ago, , my wife and I had a conversation and our three kids about taking , , some time off from professional ministry and doing something that.
Thousands of people do every year. Tens of thousands have done in the past lots more have it on their bucket list, and that's to do a lap of Australia. We bought a caravan. We, , we towed up our, , hooked up our, , our four wheel drive. And so we set out on, in 2021 on , what was to be a 12 month adventure around Australia.
It turned out to be two years. , My wife says to me, that was my plan all along. I just needed to gradually, , use it, , to the topic. And, you know, our kids at the time were, . Were early teens, uh, three children. , And it was [00:02:00] just a fabulous experience, wonderful experience of spending time with family, connecting with, you know, church, people around the country, meeting new people, , wonderful adventures, great walks, snorkeling, and all of those things that people think , , when they, , imagine doing a, , a big lap around Australia.
And, you know, that lap around Australia, , and exploring this wonderful continent we have has become one of the great road trips of the world. Hmm., Thousands of people come in from abroad each year, backpackers and, other traveling families that, , we met some along the way.
And, , it's a, , it is one of the great road trips , of the world and. I was sitting on a beach with an old friend who worked at Carmel College, our school there in, , in, just in the, , Perth Hills. Mm-hmm. In Western Australia. And as our, my kids, , played in the water with his kids and we sat in the beach, , enjoying the, , the [00:03:00] autumn sunshine.
, He was sharing with me a little bit about this story. I'd never heard this story before, that the fact that two young 21-year-old, , students from Carmel College back when it was a tertiary institution a hundred years ago, had, , had taken this tiny little car , and without any maps without.
, Any, , regular roads around the country? No, , regular, , petrol stations as, as people who do it today, are used to, , they had, they had, , circled Australia without initially planning to, they were just going out on an errand for the church. And I was just enamored with this, , this story.
It's the origin. Story, the genesis of what has become one of the great , road trips of the world. And, and so I was just, I asked him more questions. He had some archive stuff. He shared it with me. And over the next year or so, as I read more, , I thought, look , there needs to be a comprehensive book written on this [00:04:00] story.
And so that's Bubsie and the boys. That's the kind of how it came to, , came to be.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm. I think Bubsie and the Boys is a great title. I always am sold by Ed titles, but, , I read in just the bio of your book that you said the vehicle had less horsepower than a modern day lawnmower, which is wild. But was it that kind of, those kind of interesting elements that drew you to wanna share the story?
Or was it something deeper? Because I know there's also themes of like\. Purpose and of ordinary people doing incredible things. What was the thing that you were like, I really wanna get this out there and I really wanna share this message.
David Riley: Yeah, look,, it's a combination of some of those things you just described, Anita and one or two others.
, I love, , just in my own life, opportunities for travel and adventure. Uh,, some of the great stories of scripture , the Apostle Paul's missionary trips are great stories of travel and adventure, faith-based travel and adventure.
, I also have a love of the Australian outback, , the [00:05:00] deep blue skies, the red dirt, , the wonderful sounds , of the birds and,, so that,, the travel and adventure combined with. , With the Outback of Australia combined with stories of, and you mentioned sort of ordinary people doing extraordinary things, , and it's not just the two young lads that borrowed one of their brother's cars and, you know, that's a tiny little vehicle.
, It's the people that they meet along the way. , Their stories interacting with other stories and those stories are both inspiring. Some of them are a little sad. , , and also, , their interaction with Australia's First Nations people from a hundred years ago and seeing, seeing some of the difficulties, that our indigenous people experienced back then a hundred years ago.
And still experience today. And, so it was a it, whilst it's a story from a hundred years ago, I think it, , it also, , talks to us [00:06:00] today , in terms of our own, , our own individual situation, but also , our circumstances as a nation.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So Bubsie in the title refers to the car.
That's the nickname of the Little Citron that they, they drove around Australia. So the boys are the young, the young men. , Can you tell us, , their names and a little bit about the two, the two young men that, that did this trip? Were they. Yeah, it sounds like they were very young. , You said they were going on an errand, which turned into a trip around Australia, that, that's an epic sort of detour, I guess you could say.
Can you tell us a little bit about the boys in Bubsie and the boys? Yeah, sure can. So,
David Riley: uh, let's start with the car. It's a tiny, , tiny little Citron Calee two seater. , It, it now sits, the car, now sits in the National Museum of Australia as a vehicle of national significance of their, , 150 cars. Odd 150 ish cars that they have in their collection there in Canberra.
, Bubsie, and we will get to the nickname in a [00:07:00] moment, is, , is one of their favorites because it just looks fabulous. It's tiny. The kids love it when they, , when they see it, it reminds them of, I don't know whether Jared, you ever saw , the cartoon Car Brum when you were younger, whether you watch those cartoons.
I do. Yes. It reminds a lot of,, a lot of people of, , of bru, , and . It's one of, it's one of the national museum's favorite cars because it starts every time and their curators say. That, , , they have a lot of modern cars, , , for example,, the last Holden Commodore to roll off , the production line and a lot of the cars over the last 50 years, they struggled to get started whenever they have a car event there, because they've gotta hook up computers and the technology's aging and they just, but there's a simplicity around Bubsie that just starts every time and lends itself a hundred years ago.
This utilitarian nature of the car. It was just simple. It started every time it lent itself , , in a ironic way, , to traveling around the, , the continent on,, [00:08:00] cattle tracks and , and across, , across deserts., The car was originally marketed and manufactured by Citron there in France for women to.
, Tootle around cobblestone streets in Europe for afternoon tea, and appetits amazing. And so here is this car that was originally designed for, that they thought for, , for women to spend, , 15 minutes traveling down to the , local cafe. And here is this extraordinary small vehicle, with two, two strapping 21 year olds.
Circumnavigating the, , the continent down here in Australia. So I find that quite a funny , little. Little side note. So the two young blokes, 21 years old, when they started out was Neville, were Neville, Westwood and Greg Davies. They had met at Carmel College.
Greg was still studying at Carmel College. He was, , hoping to be a teacher in our school network. Neville had [00:09:00] recently graduated. He was working as what we call today, an intern. He was, a minister's assistant. , , And Neville, the year prior to setting out on this adventure in 2025, Neville had been selling books, coal porting up in the Pilbara region of Western Australia.
He rode a motorbike around that huge area that we know today, , because it's famous , for mining. And he had sold books around the towns and camps, , around that, , that region. And Neville had heard that there was a, , a church initiative to look at establishing a missionary outpost up in Darwin.
The Seventh Day Adventist Church didn't have , , any representation up there in Darwin. , And that initiative had been on the table for a couple of years, but nothing was happening. And so Neville approached. , His boss and said, look, I think we could maybe,, travel up to Darwin by car. No one had ever traveled from Perth to Darwin [00:10:00] by car before, but he knew he from the previous year's experience, he knew it was possible.
And he said, I think I can convince my older brother to loan us his car. If I get my mate Greg from Carmel College, maybe both of us could travel from Perth up to Darwin, 4,000 kilometers and we'll sell books along the way. And that's what they did. They had a couple of samples in their tiny little boot at the rear of the, , the car, and they would stop at cattle stations and small towns along the way, show their books.
, Take orders, send them, send those orders back to Perth , , by letter, and then the Perth office would ship those to the customers later on. And so they sold books along the way. They also raised a little bit of money for what we know today. ADRA. Hmm. , So they were raising money for, for charity.
And their trip, even from Perth to Darwin, was an extraordinary, , act of pioneering [00:11:00] and of, of adventure and , overcoming significant adversity to get this tiny car all the way from Perth up to Darwin.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm. So crazy. You mentioned, that you were gonna explain where the name Bubsie came from.
Can you go into that a little bit?
David Riley: Oh yeah. Thanks for the reminder there. Zita. So, so when Citron, , put this model out, they called it a baby Citron. Or in French, a petite Citron, excuse me. My, , my poor pronunciation. The Petite Citron in English actually means Little Lemon, which is not a great name , for a car.
For a car, but they kind of a australianized it in Australia. The, the Citron import is referred to it as a baby Citron. And, , so the nickname that, that Neville's family gave it of course coming from Baby Citron was, was Bubsie. So that's how the name came about and it kind of just stuck.
And these particular model Citrons for collectors who have them, , today often just refer to them as the Bubsie [00:12:00] car.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I, I'm glad you cleared up. Also, how they took orders for the books and had them posted or whatever. Because I was wondering how this tiny car, they fit so much stock into it. How did they bring all the, the, , the books and the petrol? 'cause you said there weren't. Frequent petrol stops. So they would've had to carry tanks and things of spare petrol to get to get anywhere, I imagine.
David Riley: Yeah. The petrol tank, , only held about 19 liters of fuel. It just a little tiny little, , tank that sits underneath the dashboard. , But Neville Neville's dad, , worked for, , sir Sydney Kidman. , Who was a famous, , person of, , the cattle stations from a hundred years ago was known back in the day as the cattle king.
And so Neville had grown up working in various, , cattle stations around the country, traveling with his family. So , as a kid. So he kind of knew station culture and he'd often pull into a cattle station, drop a [00:13:00] few names, , the cattle stations and sheep stations back then. Loved having visitors.
Mm-hmm. As you read, in the book Bubsie and the Boys, , you know, it was, it was just common for the cattle and sheep station homesteads to take any visitor that turned up at their doorstep, and often it was at sundown. You know that they'd have visitors. And so visitors were often known as sundowners.
Mm-hmm. Because they'd arrive, , the cattle, the homestead would give them a meal, a bed for the night, and then these, , and then these, travelers , would move on. And so, Neville knew that. And he, , and so they would stop at these cattle stations. Often the cattle stations would either give them fuel or sell them fuel.
, And that way they were able to keep on going. But it's wonderful,, often in our travels today, we wanna make sure that we've got everything scheduled. We've got,, all of our bookings , and accommodation sorted and, and, where are the stops that we have the whole itinerary planned.
But here are two young [00:14:00] lads. Setting out on something that no one had ever done before, and just stepping out in faith, knowing or feeling confident that things would just work out along the way as they, , as they traveled along.
Zanita Fletcher: Incredible. I love that. I, , I guess releasing a book I'm sure has been like an exciting thing for you.
Maybe also a relieving thing because it can be quite a process and I feel like, , I don't know, I guess it's been like sandwiched between some really difficult things in your own personal life as well, like some really tragic things. Have you found that like the excitement of the historian of writing the book has kind of helped you navigate?
I guess those like circumstances in your life or how is it like, I don't know, how has it been to write a book in such a hectic period of your life?
David Riley: , Yeah. I think like , , with anything, if you, , if God places something on your heart , there are things that come along the way that, , that, , that are obstacles and some of them are significant, Anita.
But if you just kind of,, do a little [00:15:00] bit each day, , ,, the, the story or the, or the journey progresses. I mean, anyone who's, and some of your listeners, , have. Written things before and or, , created something. And so the discipline is, just to do something every day.
And I think, , in a personal, , application that , can relate to even our relationship with God. There are some things that, , that happen in our life that, , that are really, really difficult. But if we just simply. Kind of, , make the effort to even just , to pray, just to, , connect with our creator each day, our own journey with our own, , travels and our own progress in terms of our relationship with God.
, Just, you know, improves and increases. With each day that comes. And so in the same way, I think that,, writing this book through, , through some difficult things, including,, uh,, the death of our eldest daughter earlier this year from brain cancer, , the key [00:16:00] there is just to kind of, even through those struggles do a little bit every day.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm.
Jarrod Stackelroth: The young men in the story obviously demonstrated. Great faith. , And you said they, they didn't have a worry and I, I imagine that , they, some of that was trusting in God , , and just showing up, you know, getting through those, , struggles. Now you mentioned , the tragic loss of your daughter , and Yeah, when I heard about that, , to have a life.
Lost so young. It just, , it really hits, you know, , especially 'cause I've got young children at the moment. It's like, wow, I don't even know how I would survive a situation like that. , But now you've been diagnosed with cancer as well yourself. , And the diagnosis, as I understand is not good.
How do you find that faith . Like the boys did. , In for yourself, going through something that's very, very difficult, I know it would be easy for some of us to, I guess, get angry at God or wrestle with [00:17:00] God. , Is there some of that going on for you or is it like just going, well, God's got it under control and I've gotta let go of that control?
Like , how does that look? How do you navigate that? , And I, I guess it goes up. Yeah, to be. , If you don't mind sharing, sharing that, that with us, like , how do you see that in your own personal faith?
David Riley: Yeah. Yeah. There's a, , there's a lot to your questions there. , Jared, so I'll,, let me see if I can do my best , to answer a couple of those, those questions that you raised.
So, yes, so Jessica, our 17-year-old daughter, year 12 this year, , in the first week of school started showing. Severe headaches and symptoms. She was hospitalized , and diagnosed there at the end of February with, with an aggressive brain cancer. And, , and, uh, died in the middle in. In May. So it was, you know, three months, a little bit [00:18:00] less than three months between sort of diagnosis and, uh, and death.
, And we, you know, for those of you, your, , your audience that have lost people close to them, especially children. , You know, that it's, , it is obviously, a tragic and life altering experience. We miss Jess, my wife, and our remaining two kids , and our broader family.
Miss Jessica every single day, miss her deeply. Mm-hmm. And I can only assume we'll for the rest of our lives. , And, , but you know, we have. This wonderful hope that we will see our loved ones again. You know, it's the most, it's the great promise of Christ that he has the keys to death. And, , it's that hope that, you know, allows us to navigate through these kinds of, , these kinds of tragedies.
It kind of comes as a bit of a shock to, . You know, to, to some of our, , [00:19:00] family and some of our church community. That only a couple of months after Jess's death , that I've received. , A diagnosis my cancer is, is a bit different. It's, , it's pancreatic cancer that has, well, I'm told it appear, we're still doing some more testing at the moment.
So the doctors are pretty certain it's pancreatic cancer and for those who know a bit about cancer, there's not a great survival rate there. , But it's, it's also already metastasized to multiple parts of, of my body. And so I'm told by those who know better than me that it's terminal. , And that might come as a bit of a shock to some so soon after Jess's death.
But what we've learned, and Jess was ill, was that, , Jessica and I, shared a very rare genetic syndrome that. It doesn't allow our bodies to suppress , suppress cancer. And so it's a little bit of a minor miracle, Jared and Zita, , that I I've lived this long, as I've discovered, , and I feel [00:20:00] incredibly grateful for, you know, the life , I've lived.
, The Lord has given me, we're talking about travel and adventure before the Lord has given me a life of, you know, travel and adventure. And, and not just geographical travel and adventure, but, but adventure in, in ministry. , And so I feel very grateful for that. I, I even see the, you know, the, , the blessing of, , of being able to see Jessica through to her end of life.
I'm not quite sure, you know, I've used the word a privilege or a blessing or an honor, and, and those words don't quite capture it. Just yet. But I do feel, I do feel honored to have, , to, to have seen Jess through, , , through to the end of her life with, with the reassurance for our family that, , we'll see her again.
You know, one of the last things she said to us, uh,, as we read scripture to her, one of the last things that Jess said to us was, [00:21:00] it is, well with my soul. That's a strange thing is not for a 17-year-old to quote an ancient hymn, you know, an old hymn. . And, , that was incredibly comforting to know that her faith was strong and, , and my faith is, , is strong as well.
, You know, , I feel I've seen many, many blessings over , the last six months, , with Jess's illness. And, , and now my diagnosis. And it only confirms to me that we need to live every single day. That we are given with a sense of excitement, a sense of adventure , and do the most with every opportunity we are, we are given.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think what I'm kind of hearing is that even though all of this is super unfortunate and heartbreaking, there's a lot of timely things., Like you mentioned that your family did a massive lap of Australia and went traveling together, and [00:22:00] fortunately you got to do that before either of you became unwell.
, And what a blessing, I'm sure that was. . And I think, you know, often when people receive some kind of diagnosis, that is when they go into like the live big mentality and like, let's tick off our bucket list items now, , with whatever time they have left. But it's awesome that you've kind of been able to do that with your life up until now.
But I don't know whether any, I guess because you've written, written that book hand in hand with a lot of these experiences unfolding, is there anything . Has anything come from, like the book or the story of these boys traveling around, maybe their, their trials are uncomparable to your own, but, , that has kind of like helped you, in these like experiences or in these hard times.
David Riley: Yeah. Yeah. So, Zed, I, behind me, I've got a, a little bit of a picture wall we're putting together of just some of the photos , of our family's travels around Australia. And you're right. You know, we didn't know it at the time,, a couple of years ago when we made the decision , to take some time out.
And travel with , our [00:23:00] kids. , We didn't know it as we were doing it, , that we would be at this point now and feel so glad that , we , had those experiences. And so without getting too kind of West coast American motivational speaker on you, Sunita , and Jared, it's just a, , it's just a reminder to, you know, just to, take every opportunity.
Today, you know, ,, that we have not to put things off for a , later time, you know, have that conversation, you know, with your neighbor across the road or the family member you're estranged to have those experiences with family and friends. , You know, , and I think, , the carpenter of Nazareth said it.
Didn't he in the, in the Sermon on the Mount? You know, don't worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow has enough worries of its own. All we have , is today , just enjoy the blessings of, , of each day that we are, , that we are given. So,, yeah, so I'm not sure that answers , your question, but, what I, , am mindful of.[00:24:00]
That,, in, in writing this book and some of your audience Zita , and Jared, will know elements of this story as it's been told in various forms over the last hundred years. And, and , with this year being the centenary of their achievement. . This story is, being reminded, , to us.
I've t trawled through a bunch of dusty, , archive boxes both within the church, but also in other parts of, uh, other parts of Australia as well. And so I've endeavored to tell this story honestly and truthfully. And there are parts of this story that I actually find sad. , And, and so it may surprise when people read this book, , in, in being honest about these two young fellas that, uh, that, that achieve this, , this wonderful, , you know, , um, this, this thing that they did.
, There are elements where you'll recognize their humanity. , They weren't saints that , [00:25:00] were sinless at all. They were, they were, they were two young fellas out on an adventure. , But there was still humanity to them. And it's a reminder to me that even in our own,, sinfulness, even in our own, , humanity, , even in our own ordinariness.
That,, if we set out on something we feel God placing on our heart, we can overcome any obstacle placed in our way. And ordinary people can do extraordinary things with , the help of their creator.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Mm-hmm. I'm kind of torn, David, 'cause we're running outta time here and I've got two questions that are sort of front of mind and I'm like, which one do I ask?
Maybe I'll ask them both and you can just give us, a quick sort of answer , through there. You are a pastor and you've probably pe preached a lot of sermons in your life and I've, I myself as a writer have often thought if I had. To give one last message to people, a sermon or an [00:26:00] article or something that, that I could provide.
What would be the core of that message? And then I guess, on the book front as well, who's the book for , who's the audience that you intended when you were writing this book?
David Riley: Yeah. Yeah. , Let me answer that second question, , first Jared. , So yes, , the book is quite a lengthy, , quite a lengthy book, and I'm aware that,, people, , I'm told anyway, aren't reading much anymore.
, I kind of disagree. I think they're reading, but in , different forms, . There is always going to be an audience. Somewhere for a story that's, uh, that's well told. And , I'm hoping, Jared, that the story is, , in this book, Bubs in the Boys is, is well told. But I, I've written it.
, I had a couple of, , a couple of mates in mind, you know, not Christians. Not Adventist, obviously, , blokes, , who, , and I thought, what, you know, how, how is a way I can tell this story in a way that engages them? [00:27:00] So you've got,, travel adventure cars. This actual story, , turns into a race where two other vehicles are set out to be the first to Lap Australia.
, They, these two other vehicles faster and bigger cars set out within 24 hours of each other. Not knowing that Neville and Greg, , in Bubsie were already on the road, you know, so the big media event of these two other cars. Set out , the newspapers didn't even know Bubsie was on the road, and it was only later down the track that they discovered that there was another car out there.
And so, , these two other vehicles , , start to chase down, , Bubsie. And it was, it almost as you read the story, it. Well, we know the end of the story. Bubsie obviously becomes the, uh, but even those two cars are, , the people driving those two cars have their own extraordinary story as well. Mm-hmm.
So, you know, we've got these elements of travel, the Outback adventure, you know, crossing rivers, being pulled across by indigenous [00:28:00] women. , , meeting extraordinary people out there in the outback, and there's even a, there's even a race, a car chase in there as well. , There are fights, , there's a number of things there that I kind of thought, what is, you know, what's a, what's your average?
And to use a cliche, your average, Aussie. , What's he going to be interested in? Mm-hmm. And ly for that matter. And so I've written it for, uh, for that audience in mind and hoping that it, it also gives a, a soft and warm introduction to the Seventh Day Adventist Church because without the church, this story would never have happened.
, And so I'm hoping that , they'll get into the story. They'll, , have a warm introduction , to us as a body , of believers and, , maybe just, maybe God might place on their heart to maybe find out a little bit more, maybe.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm. Awesome. And then the
David Riley: , The second, , party of your question, Jared, was what would your, uh, what, what's , the sermon you would preach?
Look, I [00:29:00] think the, the sermons in my life that have had the most, . The most, impact on people and the sermons I've listened to that have had the most impact on me are the sermons where you share in an honest and real way how God has spoken to you, and that if I had one more sermon to preach, it would be.
How God has blessed me in my life.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm. Amazing. Dave, you , mentioned earlier in this conversation that the young men were raising money for ADRA, I believe, , and you to spoke to us before and you said that part of the proceeds of this book are also going to support kids, cancer charities. Correct me if I'm wrong.
. Can people support that in other ways aside from just buying your book or is buying the book the best way to support that? , Yeah, that charity.
David Riley: Yeah, so, so part of the [00:30:00] proceeds of Bubsie and the boys is going to two kids cancer charities, , canteen and Brainchild. , There's a, a number of wonderful charities that supported us through, uh, through Jess's illness.
, And we've kind of picked, , picked these two to, support for this project. , We do have an a car. That was the sister car to Bubsie. It's called Bubsie two. It was driven around Australia in 1975 for the 50th anniversary by a couple by a team, including a famous Citron rally car driver at the time. We have that book, and it was our intention this year for the centenary to drive that car around Australia, , on the cattle, on the original route that the, , that Neville and Greg took in the original Bubsie.
, But with Jess's illness and death with. Obviously have to delay that, that drive next year is gonna go ahead. , We are driving the car, , with a couple of other support cars along the way, but the car is actually gonna be [00:31:00] driven on the original route. That's the plan. , And we'll stop along the way to, , tell the story in various places.
, Maybe sell some books and raise some money again for canteen and brainchild. And so if any of your audience. , , would like to, there are some fabulous, fabulous, , charities that support kids and families going through this experience. Canteen , and brainchild are one, but you've also got, , you've also got Red Kites.
Uh, the Mark Hughes Foundation I'm talking to from Newcastle, and the Mark Hugs Foundation is a Newcastle based brain cancer charity. , But , but look, there's multiple charities out there , that do some fabulous work helping families through these difficult circumstances.
Zanita Fletcher: Hmm. Awesome. Yeah, thanks for that.
We'll put those links in the comments for anyone who wants to support them and your book as well. Bubsie and the Boys, the First Journey around Australia by car. , Dave, thank you so much for joining us today. I know many people have been [00:32:00] saddened by the news of your daughter and now your diagnosis as well, so we'll definitely.
Keep that in prayer. , But yeah, also feeling excited about the release of this awesome book.
David Riley: Thanks, Anita. Thanks Jared.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you again on record Live. God bless.