Record Live Podcast

Connecting_with_God_easy_or_hard
Jarrod Stackelroth: [00:00:00] Hi there, everyone. I'm Jarrod.
Zanita Fletcher: And I'm Zenita.
Jarrod Stackelroth: We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church, faith, and living well.
Zanita Fletcher: We believe as followers of Jesus, faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we put into practice.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Let's go live.
Zanita Fletcher: Hello everyone. Welcome back to another week of Record Live. We had a great conversation last week with Catalina on the topic of forgiveness. So if you haven't checked it out, head over there and we are back with the OG team with Jared, you're back. So thanks for coming on to Record Live.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It's good to be back, Zanita, and I will be one of those people that has to go and check out that conversation because I haven't actually got to hear it yet. And I'm excited because I hear good things. So I'm going to go check that out.
Zanita Fletcher: It was awesome., [00:01:00] We also have with us another special guest today. Her name is Lucy Desington. , she's coming all the way from WA and she's also had to juggle with putting her child to sleep. So thank you so much for joining us today, Lucy. It's great to have you on.
Lucy Dessington: Thanks. I'm looking forward to the chat.
Zanita Fletcher: Now, Lucy, I first heard you speak at a conference called Growing Young a few years ago, which, yeah, I remember hearing you speak and finding you were just very authentic about your relationship with God. And so I guess it's part of the reason why we've brought you on today,.
Zanita Fletcher: Like, what does it mean to have a relationship with God? That is something that is so easy for some people, but so difficult for others. but I guess before we fully gear into that, we'd love to just hear a little bit about your journey. Like we could probably talk about your testimony for the full 30 minutes, but ,, yeah, just tell us a bit about what your faith journey has been like.
Lucy Dessington: Yeah, sure. Well, I can, maybe I'll give you like a super overarching lens and then I can share a little bit about where I'm at just now. , so yeah, grew up in a Christian family, [00:02:00] Christian household. My granddad is a minister or was a minister. And, so yeah, Kind of no time in my life where God wasn't a part of my life or the conversation for our family.
Lucy Dessington: but part of my faith journey was to that, , growing up my family, we, I call it like bouncing around. We just sort of bounce to different churches. And, when I say different churches, I'm talking different denominations. So, I was christened in an Anglican church by my granddad. , in my early teen years, I was baptized into the church of Christ and then through a long series of interesting events, I did a profession of faith and became an Adventist when I was 19.
Lucy Dessington: So I think I've ticked all of the options for, faith journeys, I suppose. Um, But I guess my, my faith journey really started at that time where I decided to be baptized. That's where I fell in love with Jesus and wanted to give my life to him and learned about the Holy Spirit as well and his role in my life.
Lucy Dessington: and then [00:03:00] in my early teen years, had some things happen. So for instance, my family, my parents got divorced and separated. And then so, What that actually meant was it became really difficult to attend church, , with my family. but I, as I look back, I can really see, the way that I feel like God cared for me and my faith in that time because I started to make some decisions for myself.
Lucy Dessington: , and one of those decisions was, , I was actually attending an Adventist school and we'd had Easter camp, which is our big camp in the West. And, I'd kind of tagged along with one of my schoolmates who was an Adventist. And, during that time, so my parents had just split up and, I just sort of said to her and her family after Easter camp, Hey, do you reckon I could.
Lucy Dessington: tag along to church with you guys. , and so they actually picked me up pretty much every Sabbath. , and I went to church with their family and hung out with their family on Sabbath. So that was sort of my introduction to faith, as an Adventist. So. Yeah, that's probably the big suit where I'm [00:04:00] at now.
Lucy Dessington: I'm married. I'm in my, I think I can still only just say early thirties. But yeah, that's where I'm at. ,I have a little daughter, who's two and a half. So I'm juggling mom life and I work part time as a radiographer., my husband Ryan is an apprentice and yeah, we live up in the Perth Hills.
Lucy Dessington: Beautiful spot. So yeah, that's a bit about where we're at now.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , that's so cool to hear, you know, the development of your faith, , over the years. I'm a parent, as you are, with fairly young children,
Lucy Dessington: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Stackelroth: and I've heard others sort of say it is quite hard to have a connection, a strong relationship with God in this time. Have you found that to be the case, or how do you manage sort of your relation with God, your relation with, with faith, and at the same time juggling extra responsibilities as a parent of a young child who you have to do a lot of stuff for?
Lucy Dessington: Yeah. Yes, [00:05:00] I resonate. Jarrod, the struggle is real. Probably I think, of a couple of things. One, I think of, how grateful I am that, I went into a season of parenting with a faith journey, because without having developed that kind of faith as like a foundation in my life, I think I would have found it even more difficult, to Maybe start new in terms of relationships.
Lucy Dessington: I had an existing relationship with God, which I'm very thankful for. But one of the things that I found really surprising was that almost every way that I used to connect with God, Almost like vanished overnight, purely for like logistical reasons. So, I suddenly found myself, up at all different times of the day and night, as opposed to having quite a regular work life rhythm.
Lucy Dessington: ,and even like my connection with church [00:06:00] family , and relationships with other Christian friends also changed too. And that's a big part of my relationship with God is kind of like relationship with God in the context of community too. So all of a sudden my life, seemed to revolve around someone else's.
Lucy Dessington: Routine and rhythm as opposed to my own and , my usual natural rhythm. So I think, that, that has been really hard. It's been really unsettling, of sometimes I think about it feeling a bit like you're, you got a good footing and then all of a sudden like marbles come along and you just suddenly feel like your feet are sliding.
Lucy Dessington: ,so there's been a lot of that going on for the last couple of years, to be honest, which is, has been interesting. Yeah.
Zanita Fletcher: I can see why it's good then that you've had a foundation to fall back on, but
Lucy Dessington: Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like you, you sliding along, but your hands are still reaching out if you're trying to grab a hold of something or trying to grab a hold of God. But, , yeah, often in new ways.,
Zanita Fletcher: you mentioned earlier that when you were growing [00:07:00] up, you, , I guess were in different denominations, , and before you came to Adventism. I'd be curious to know in those different seasons, how you connected with God, like, did that look different? In different denominations or different periods of your life.
Zanita Fletcher: Obviously it does now to when you have a child, but just, I guess, over the course of your life, what has connecting with God looks like for you?
Lucy Dessington: , I don't know whether I could relate it strongly to like, there being a difference in terms of denomination. For me personally, I think more like, because each of those phases of my life was, as I was getting older, it was probably more age related, , or different life stage related rather than, a denomination.
Lucy Dessington: I think what has happened though, is I just feel that I've been blessed with such a rich and diverse Christian experience. And so each layer of that has felt like an added layer to my faith journey. So. for instance, when I was, in my like really [00:08:00] early teens or like late primary school age, was going to a local church and was a part of, a small group, which was run by one of my friend's moms.
Lucy Dessington: And she was just so instrumental in my life because she taught me, , taught me about the Holy Spirit. And she taught me that, the Holy Spirit is always with us and the Holy Spirit really turns us around. transforms us from the inside out. so that was really my first introduction to the Holy Spirit.
Lucy Dessington: And I felt like I met the person of the Holy Spirit through her and through her example. and then I think if I go kind of through to my high school years, learning about the Adventist church, I think there was things like a really rich understanding, and curiosity about the word of God, , the Bible.
Lucy Dessington: and also just the question of, yeah, just constantly asking, well, what, what do I believe? , and how do I figure that out? And I, I think that was one of the things that really drew me to the Adventist faith is that [00:09:00] when I was in that time of my life, that felt like quite a lot of turmoil, like my family unit was not as strong as it used to be all of those things, that my Adventist church friends, were really helpful at.
Lucy Dessington: , bringing a sense of security in my life. They could tell me what they believed and why. And I found that really helpful at the time. , and then I think, , each of those building blocks has been really good, but also as I've gotten older, there's been a little bit of a, , you know, like as I was saying, how some of those structures and things that I held onto for a long time, suddenly this next journey of being a mom, has kind of.
Lucy Dessington: Pulled some of those things away in terms of like a rhythm. I just feel like I'm now in a new season of learning and relearning and I'm learning to, like some of those habits that I picked up along the way that the good and the bad, there's just been a refreshment of, what am I now taking through into this next season of faith in my life?
Lucy Dessington: So I think it's been a constant change, but there's always different layers. [00:10:00] And I, I think that's been really special. So yeah, lots of learning from different people.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I'm hearing from our conversation so far that, what this looks like evolves. It changes over time. And also that, , I think every individual. Is obviously in a different life stage, but every person probably has, and I think Zanita, we've talked about this on the program before about different almost worship languages or different love languages for God, like different ways that we connect changes from person to person, but I want to just, I want to strip it back a little bit and ask, what is a relationship with God?
Jarrod Stackelroth: Cause it's one of these Terms that we talk a lot about in the Christian world. it's not so emphasized. I don't think in other religions as such. if we go outside Christianity and also there's not a heap of explicit detail in the Bible in terms of Relationship with God. It's sort of a more modern concept in some [00:11:00] senses.
Jarrod Stackelroth: But what do we even mean by that? And how do you think, or why is it important, to be connected to God and have him connected to you? Like, how does that look? Let's strip it back and just define a bit about what we're talking about, because I think that will help people who are watching or listening to, I've heard people claim like they don't know how to have a relationship with God and it's one of the reasons maybe they've left faith because they've tried to ask what it looks like for different people and they've never gotten an idea that sort of satisfies them.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , so basic at a basic level, what is a relationship with God?
Lucy Dessington: It's a brilliant question, Jared. And I hope, that you're going to give it a stab too. And do you know what? I'm so glad that you said that. It's hard to define too, cause I'd completely agree. and it was, it's very daunting to come onto a conversation about, Oh, Lucy, can you share us your experience?
Lucy Dessington: Because it's going to be so different for everyone and perhaps my experience or how I define it will be different for [00:12:00] someone else. And I think that's a really good thing and important to say up front. ,
Lucy Dessington: There is this, I can't describe it any differently to this yearning. When you read the word of God, that there is this absolute scandal that the God of the universe would be interested in me. And that, that is a thread that I read through the whole of God's word because of his interactions with other people.
Lucy Dessington: And the scandal is that if that is true of the word of God, then the possibility is that that can be true for me in my life. How it looks, I actually still don't know. I'm still discovering. , I can give you snapshots of how it feels at this time, but, , I know that it is two way. To start with. So I know that, for a relationship to be called a relationship, there has to be something at both ends.
Lucy Dessington: Right. And I also think that a relationship is current. It's not necessarily something that's based on one interaction [00:13:00] previously. There's this sense of it being an ongoing relationship and the best examples of it that I think I can see in God's word that encouraged me is when I started to look in the Old Testament.
Lucy Dessington: Different characters and there was, there's this amazing picture in the Bible, , of the very first relationship with God between Adam and Eve and God and they're in this garden and what I see there is them talking to each other. They walk together each day. they are looking around at God's creation.
Lucy Dessington: God gives them meaningful work and, they report to God and tell them about their day and God, God talks back to them about their day. and then there's this terrible thing where they're no longer in the garden. , but then a couple of chapters later, , I see that there are new people that it's talks about.
Lucy Dessington: They start to walk with God again, so they're not in the garden anymore, but there's still an opportunity for them to [00:14:00] walk with God. And I think I'm just starting to discover what that looks like for me. So yeah, if that's a definition, I would say walking with God, is , part of how I would.
Lucy Dessington: Answer that question, but I'd love to hear what you guys think too.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah. Walking with God is a good analogy because again, like you said, Lucy, it can look so different for so many different people. And I think I've also seen it more as like a relational thing, but I don't know, again, I, I was at a young adults camp just the other week. And there was a whole circle of people discussing this concept of like, what does it actually mean?
Zanita Fletcher: Because there was some who had this like intimate relationship with God that was almost like a romantic love or like a best friend or a parent. And then there was others who like had tried to have that, but still felt like They struggled not having a physical person or not hearing like an audible voice, or they never like the spirit, or they never sensed God directing them.
Zanita Fletcher: Or maybe [00:15:00] they just doubted that. How do I know if it's God or if it's not just me kind of like making these decisions. And so I think it's really tricky. I remember my grandpa used to get really jealous of my Nana's relationship with God, because she was just like, so in love with him. And he was like, I don't know.
Zanita Fletcher: Like I'm just not experiencing this, like I don't know how you love this, this like kind of imaginative thing that we can't see with so much like passion. So yeah, I think it's definitely looked different in my journey from different seasons, but yeah, like you said, it's different for everyone.
Zanita Fletcher: But Jared, do you want to share with us what your definition is and what your experience is a little bit? Hello.
Jarrod Stackelroth: God places that desire in our hearts , to connect with him. And he, it's clear from his word, we were formed in our mother's womb and he knew us, , he knows the number of hairs on our head.
Jarrod Stackelroth: [00:16:00] Some of those things are very encouraging when we look at our own value and when we estimate like what we're actually worth. But I guess, one thing that helps me imagine. What does a relationship with God mean or what does it look like? Is the idea that relationship takes shared experiences. for myself, I've had even some of the difficult times in my life, the stresses or the most struggling that I've ever experienced, having a sense that God was with me there in those times.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Times and places, whether we've reframed it later on to understand that God was there or whether we actually walked with God through those dark valleys, for me, I can say there were some really difficult times in my life when I leaned into God and I sought him more because, you feel alone, you feel, down, you feel disconnected from a lot of people, but God is there at least that's how I see, see it.
Jarrod Stackelroth: [00:17:00] And so when I now look back at how far God's taken me, what he's done for me in those times, that's what we call testimony. that's giving glory to God for what he's done there, but it also forms the bedrock, at least for me, of my relationship with God. Like I seek God. Because I see what he's done in my life and I see what he's done in the lives of my parents and my grandparents and those around me, like I've seen him work.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And so because he's been there in some of the best and the worst times of my life, it makes me want to continue that relationship because yeah, it's why we hang out with our friends from high school because we spent so much time with them. We have shared experiences. It's why we have a spouse. is one of the closest people in our lives because we travel with them and we raise children with them.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And we, we do all sorts of interesting things with them and those become the bedrock of our relationship. And, marriage counselors [00:18:00] and psychologists, they say, you need to remember those good times in the bad times. That's what helps you keep that relationship, keep it going strong.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And so for me,
Zanita Fletcher: not going
Jarrod Stackelroth: I think sometimes that's how I think about my relationship with God. As the fact that he's actually been there for me through thick and thin. And so even at times when we doubt and we wrestle with our faith, it's like, yeah, but I know what he's done for me in the past. So I need to, I need to keep trying.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Maybe it's. It's sometimes a never ending journey to get back to that mountaintop, that experience with God. And I'm, as I'm, as I'm talking, I'm thinking about that Eden experience that Lucy, you mentioned, it's like, we're trying to get back to Eden. That's the whole story of the Bible is restoring right relationship with God and, and seeking after Eden.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So I think for me, We won't get a full taste of what that looks like in these lives, perhaps, but [00:19:00] that's the ultimate destination that we're all trying to get to. It's walking with God so closely that, you know, the children of Israel followed the cloud around the desert for 40 years. That was God's presence, and he dwelt among them in the tent.
Jarrod Stackelroth: he, he wanted to live with them. He wanted to be with them. And I think that's where we get this concept of relationship. God wants to be close to us. Are we willing to Put in the hard work that a relationship takes to actually be with him because he wants to be with. I guess that's, I don't know if that answers my own question, but I think it adds some.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Yeah, we're all, we've all added a slightly different perspective, but I'm finding it a very helpful conversation to have to build on my own conception of what it looks like to connect with God.
Zanita Fletcher: I really like that concept of shared experiences that you mentioned, Jared. I think sometimes people look at like the biblical examples and they're like, Oh, [00:20:00] they, we can see people who have actually walked with God or who have heard God's voice from like a fire or just from the sky or who actually spent time with Jesus.
Zanita Fletcher: And so we kind of compare it and. I heard someone recently say kind of a similar thing to what you're saying. He was like, Oh, I experienced God through hindsight. And he was kind of saying like, sometimes when I'm going through those difficult periods, really struggle to feel God's present and feel like he's there.
Zanita Fletcher: And like I'm connecting, but like you were saying, you look backwards and you're like, Oh, I can see what he was doing and I can see that he was there. And so, yeah, I think looking back can be really helpful in that sense.
Zanita Fletcher: I guess I'm just gonna ask Lucy, like, for you when you've, I don't know if you've been through certain periods that have been really challenging where you also haven't felt you've struggled to connect with God. What have you done in those periods where you've found it more difficult to connect with God?
Lucy Dessington: Yeah, [00:21:00] I think, those, yeah, those periods come fairly frequently at times. Yeah. And I've definitely been through seasons. Yeah, I think, One of the things that I've probably more recently, , struggling through that was actually just to relook at who God is, because I think, if there are times when our desire to be in a relationship with God can also fluctuate.
Lucy Dessington: And so I think I, I actually needed to remind myself of that. God, who actually are you? And I think it was sort of stepping into a new season of realizing that sometimes I had made God into something other than perhaps he actually is. , and so it was actually about re, relearning who God is. I think that was something that, , was helpful during that time, just, just reminding myself about, , his [00:22:00] character and that, , I think, realizing who God is helped me to desire to be in relationship with him more.
Lucy Dessington: it grew that in me. So I think that was helpful. I also think, , mentoring is super helpful or speaking to someone Older than you that's traveled lots of different seasons. , I find so much, comfort in people that have been on a long haul journey with Jesus that I can talk to and just be like, Oh, I'm in this season.
Lucy Dessington: And I feel like I'm going in circles. I'm like wandering around and I don't know where I am, which way is up. but it can just be so helpful to find someone, particularly someone older than you, , who, you know, has a great relationship with God and you can just talk to them about it. , especially when, like, , both, all of us, I think we're saying it can be really hard when our relationship with God is not face to face and not tangible in terms of a person that we're actually [00:23:00] interacting with.
Lucy Dessington: , Um, just remember that, you know, the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit works through others as well. , we believe that about the body of Christ, that each one of us has the Holy Spirit in us. And so when we, when we can approach someone else, they can often share , share with us to encourage us on our journey because they have the Holy Spirit in them too.
Lucy Dessington: so I think in those times where we can feel distant and disconnected from God, my biggest encouragement is don't also disconnect from community in those times. Really stay hooked into community. , because it's in that body of believers, , or even just in that one relationship with one other mentor type figure that, , they can really help you to spur on your journey.
Lucy Dessington: , we've got, and yeah, I loved what you guys both said about remembering to, , remembering is so important. So I, I must admit, I don't really have like a journaling practice as such, but I have [00:24:00] started to jot down, , some things that are meaningful to me. And it is so helpful to then be able to flick back and just be like, Oh, I still don't feel like I'm totally out of this season, but look where I am now compared to where I was when I started.
Lucy Dessington: So yeah, those are probably just a couple of little practice type things or things that have helped me in those seasons.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I loved what you said about community because we can often boil it down to, um, read your Bible, pray every day and you'll grow, grow, grow like that. And there's a lot of truth. There's a lot of truth to that. But people, you know, I have trouble reading the Bible for, you know, forcing themselves to do it day after day, long amounts of time.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Like sometimes we get this message that you have to do it for however long you have to pray, you have to do those things. And I think we often under emphasize the, the community element of that [00:25:00] equation. , For myself, I was just saying to Zanita before we came on, , actually. Community is one of the strongest ways I feel most connected to God.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I think in terms of preaching or teaching or writing, I get to work out my own thoughts about wrestling with God. And I get to think about my audience and how they might take what I say. And so I have to. Present or, , or come together and the Holy Spirit gets in the mix. And even in a small group Bible study where I'm not sort of leading out as such, but other people are sharing and it's triggering like this conversation, I'm hearing things from you guys.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And it's, it's making me think differently or it's, or it's building on a picture that I already have and giving me more language or a different perspective. Like, I think we underestimate the importance of that community. And how much that can help us. I know for myself, when I'm [00:26:00] in these God conversations, it's almost my favorite part of being a Christian, being of the Christian faith is to talk to God about others, to share God about, you know, to share about God with others, or to share my own experiences and how God has helped me or to hear other people's stories of how God has Those are some of the most powerful times.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And the common denominator is community. Like we're in community with each other and we're in community with God. And it's just a beautiful picture. , I think I'm going to put it out there and I'll see what you, Lucy and you, , Zanita, whether you agree with this, but I think the idea of connecting with God and relationship with God, it perhaps has become quite an individualized thing over the years.
Jarrod Stackelroth: relationship with God is about me and God. It's like a boyfriend, girlfriend, like it's exclusive where we're together, but I feel like. [00:27:00] We underplay the importance of an institutional relationship with God or a communal relationship with God, because when I read the Bible, it's always the children of Israel as what's their relationship with God and they fall or they rise on the whole.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Or on the king as a reflection of the whole, you know, all the people did what was right in their own eyes, or all the people worship God and led. So what do you guys think about the rise of individualism in the West and our impact on, just quickly, we're running out of time, our What is that impact of how society says we should be individuals.
Jarrod Stackelroth: We should forge our own path and maybe the ramifications of what it looks like to connect with God in a Western context.
Lucy Dessington: think that is a fascinating observation, Jared. You're going to have to do another session about that sometime. that's too big [00:28:00] for us to chew on just now, but I'm so glad the thought came out. ,
Zanita Fletcher: I'm
Lucy Dessington: I, I would agree that it is a tension. I don't know if it's the thing, but I think that there is absolutely attention that we, we are called to navigate in that space.
Lucy Dessington: Because like when I, I loved your example of the children of Israel, you know, for so long in the old Testament, there was this, um, often a person that was the relationship with God for the people relied on. So whether that was Moses or whether that was whichever leader at the time. And then we come to the new Testament and Jesus totally flips that on its head again, because he reestablishes an individual relationship with people where we can.
Lucy Dessington: Go through Jesus to God himself, , as individuals, you know, Jesus is our high priest kind of thing. , but I, I think absolutely maybe [00:29:00] our skew and maybe where we're at in the world of today. , has bought something different to the individual where that has become the priority and we've lost sight of the other stuff, , or got a bit cluttered.
Lucy Dessington: And I think there's lots of, there's lots of traps for individualism, , where it absolutely can become total blinkers on. And, I think we're very vulnerable when we are totally in that individual. , connection, but I also think we mustn't neglect an individual relationship with God because that's so wonderful and such a beautiful thing, but I would definitely encourage both.
Lucy Dessington: And, yes to your individual personal faith journey in community. And I think both strengthen each other. So yeah, fascinating observation. I love that Jared.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, I also agree and struggle with it. Like, I don't not agree because I'm all for community and I love the idea of [00:30:00] like intimate community, but I, I haven't experienced a lot of intimate communities, even within the church, because I feel like people still come to church and interact in that they just come and they go and they don't really get close.
Zanita Fletcher: And so I feel like sometimes you can see people at church and you can see those people who, have . a really close relationship with God outside of church because it just like beams out of them almost. And then you can tell the people who just come and leave and, that's the extent of their relationship.
Zanita Fletcher: Maybe that's judgmental or whatever, but , yeah, I think we need, we need both. I think we can learn a lot about God and really grow close to God in community. And I think if we don't have that, we'll miss out. But I also think it's a really beautiful thing to just. Go on that individual walk with God.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Well, it seems like it's gone very quickly. We're out of time for today. It's been a really fascinating conversation. Thank you, Lucy, for spending time. , exploring those topics with us today. We like to get practical on record [00:31:00] live and we have had a couple of practical suggestions. So just for our audience to rehash, I think mentoring was a really good one.
Jarrod Stackelroth: and seeking that opportunity, I think remembering what God has done for us is also something that can keep us, connected to what he's done. And also, we did mention Bible study and prayer, and those things can be important fasting or prayer or Bible study, but they might have to be topics for another day.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So at this point we say thank you for watching, listening. thank you, Lucy, for jumping on with us today. And we hope to see you all next week on Record Live. Until then, God bless.